I think there is a difference between disliking destiny and disliking the company making it People don’t dislike destiny, they want it to be its best. It’s currently not and shadowkeep won’t make it that way People dislike bungie. What they’ve become and what they continue to do to a franchise that should’ve been what every game measured itself against in terms of reaching greatness is disgusting Hate is such a strong word

I don’t think you’re entirely accurate there. Things are looking on the bright-side for the franchise rn. Not that the game has a small player base, it does not. But just because they don’t have 30 million active players like before, makes it a bad a game. People tend to like easy games and destiny is about to get a lot more hardcore than it is rn, at least on the endgame side. That tends to scare off lots of casuals that can’t get the sweetest juice out of the game which is the endgame activities. I’m seeing many of my friends that abandoned the franchise 8 months ago and even a year back, coming back for shadowkeep. I guess it’s back to the old famous saying “let’s wait and see”. Bungie certainly does a great job hyping players all the way to the limit of hype levels. They’ve always landed on their feet so why would they fail this time.

Matter of opinion mate Adding battle passes and giving less actual content for more money while the content we do get is reskinned doesn’t seem like the franchise is heading the right direction Add eververse getting new gear while the other vendors get no update, plus the alienating of more and more players. I mean I’m sure the direction is fine for a minority of people but as a business you should be aiming to add customers to your current “hardcore” ones, not reduce potential income And this is just my opinion but if you keep reducing how many customers you have, then eventually your business will fail

Then it’s been failing since D1, but somehow for 5 years they’ve managed to entangled the pockets of 2 million more or less hardcore/casual fans that still pay up when new or reskinned content drops. Trust me, these guys got $500 million from Activision 5 years ago, and then 100 million from netease and that’s not counting other ongoing undisclosed ventures, business wise they’re fine. I’m assuming you haven’t watched the new vidoc but there’s a part that shows a planning blackboard and the scheduled agenda for destiny projects extends to 2024(which may well be a hype tactic, but what if it isn’t). Maybe by that year we can discuss how bad it all went but they’re not closing shop anytime soon. Look if they survived the garbage show that was D2 vanilla they can survive anything.

I’ve seen it and the lies didn’t surprise me Guess we’ll agree to disagree about the success of this

We can’t agree or disagree on the success yet, we can just comment on the matter until it drops. But for someone that thinks so low of the company and expects nothing good from the game you sure are quite the active destiny player lol. Cheers

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Doesn’t mean you’re right. Don’t mean I agree. Or disagree. Or care. It is what it is but still, Haters gonna hate. Haters hate. You got some politically correct way to say it?

Nice bait 👍

On the nose! Nice catch!

It is so easy to get attention on this forum that you won't find any better free entertainment 😄

Ouch! Blam! And the ref takes a point away! 😆✌️

Im with you. -blam!- these guys. They have been on here pretending to hate the game FOR YEARS. I dont know which would be sadder; if they are just hypocrites or if they have stopped playing that long ago and are STILL on here..

[quote]Just watched the vid. Ok haters of Destiny and Bungie, go away because the real Guardians are ready to gear up for Shadowkeep, and all the hype over here may make you sick, with what all of you being disgusted by everything D2 and all, you’ve been warned. And by the way, haters, why are you here? Still looking at D2, for? If your hate for D2 is TRUE, then hate honestly and go away. Now if u still here, hater, ask yourself why? Are you a fake hater secretly in love w D2? It’s ok, really. Or, hater, is your life so meaningless that you, hater, have to find some post on some game to hate on for your life to have some purpose? SAD! Haters gonna hate! Shadowkeep incoming, -blam!-! [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler][/quote] Spoken like a true Bungie/Destiny Apologist Blind Fanboy. [spoiler]😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂[/spoiler]

[quote][quote]Just watched the vid. Ok haters of Destiny and Bungie, go away because the real Guardians are ready to gear up for Shadowkeep, and all the hype over here may make you sick, with what all of you being disgusted by everything D2 and all, you’ve been warned. And by the way, haters, why are you here? Still looking at D2, for? If your hate for D2 is TRUE, then hate honestly and go away. Now if u still here, hater, ask yourself why? Are you a fake hater secretly in love w D2? It’s ok, really. Or, hater, is your life so meaningless that you, hater, have to find some post on some game to hate on for your life to have some purpose? SAD! Haters gonna hate! Shadowkeep incoming, -blam!-! [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler][/quote] Spoken like a true Bungie/Destiny Apologist Blind Fanboy. [spoiler]😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂[/spoiler][/quote] Spoken like a true hater! [spoiler]Get baited[/spoiler]

[quote][quote][quote]Just watched the vid. Ok haters of Destiny and Bungie, go away because the real Guardians are ready to gear up for Shadowkeep, and all the hype over here may make you sick, with what all of you being disgusted by everything D2 and all, you’ve been warned. And by the way, haters, why are you here? Still looking at D2, for? If your hate for D2 is TRUE, then hate honestly and go away. Now if u still here, hater, ask yourself why? Are you a fake hater secretly in love w D2? It’s ok, really. Or, hater, is your life so meaningless that you, hater, have to find some post on some game to hate on for your life to have some purpose? SAD! Haters gonna hate! Shadowkeep incoming, -blam!-! [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler] [spoiler]HYPE[/spoiler][/quote] Spoken like a true Bungie/Destiny Apologist Blind Fanboy. [spoiler]😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂[/spoiler][/quote] Spoken like a true hater! [spoiler]Get baited[/spoiler][/quote] Lmao!! I don’t hate Destiny though. I actually love Destiny but I don’t approve of the direction they want to take the Franchise and tired of all the Reskind Armor, being Monetized to Death, Recycled Content, Weaponized FOMO, Removal of Content I pay for etc. If Destiny was more like Borderlands, I’d stay with the Franchise and would buy Shadowkeep. But out of Principle, I can’t continue with the Franchise. I’m a firm believer that MTX and Battle Passes have zero place in a Premium/Triple A Title that I already spent $180 bucks on for everything up to this point. MTX and Battle Passes belong in Free to Play Games like Warframe, Dauntless, Apex Legends, Fortnite and Paladins etc. And if you say Destiny is going Free to Play, I will scream at you cause it is not Free to Play. If Destiny was Free to Play, Forsaken/Annual Pass, Shadowkeep/Annual Pass would be 100% Free along with the Base Game, Curse of Osiris and Warmind. Destiny is nothing more then a Free to ENTER but it is far from a Free to PLAY Game. [spoiler]Free to Play is Warframe.[/spoiler]

So you think that all the seasons should be free? Is $10 really too much money to pay for some extra content? I remember when $15 bought you 4 CoD maps. If you hate MTX so much, you should really go and complain to the company that showed they could be used to make billions. That Dev team is called Rockstar. The MTX in the Destiny universe is still not pay to win. Ever since Eververse was introduced, the MTX haters, kept saying, "it will be a slippery slope." 4 years later, still just cosmetics. One last bit. You shouldn't say you don't hate Destiny and then list a bunch of the current things that make up D2 that you hate. Or say Destiny is great I love it, but hate Bungie. Without Bungie there is no Destiny.

[quote]So you think that all the seasons should be free?[/quote] If Bungie wants to go Free to Play, then yes it should be treated like Warframe, Dauntless, Apex Legends, Fortnite and Paladins etc. and be completely free. Especially they are hell bent on keeping Eververse and their new Battle Pass System. Developers can’t and shouldn’t be allowed to have it both ways, they can’t and shouldn’t charge for a Game and it’s Expansions AND have MTX and Battle Passes and monetize like it’s Free to Play when it isn’t. [quote]Is $10 really too much money to pay for some extra content?[/quote] For some people yes, especially if they are financially tight and can’t afford it. [quote]I remember when $15 bought you 4 CoD maps.[/quote] [quote]If you hate MTX so much, you should really go and complain to the company that showed they could be used to make billions. That Dev team is called Rockstar.[/quote] I know you want to jump on the bandwagon of “bUt dEvElOpErs nEeD MtX to mAkE biLliOnS!” No, they don’t. CDPR has fully funded The Witcher Series without MTX of any kind. The Game Sales funded the DLC, the DLC funded more DLC and the Game and DLC funded the Witcher 2 and it’s DLC and it’s DLC and so on. And they are using the revenue from the Witcher Series to fund their next project Cyberpunk2077. There are still Developers who are proving everyday that the old System of DLC works without monetizing to death their communities. The reason why Developers who stick with the old model of DLC make it work is cause they actually create a game that sells by making Lengthy Campaigns with immersive Storytelling, Addicting Gameplay etc. and do just fine. Borderlands 3 has no MTX in it. Yes, they have a Vanity Store via Crazy Earl but you can’t buy his Cosmetics with real money, you can’t buy Iridium with real money etc. you play the game, get the currency and spend it on what you like. Loot isn’t Reskinned and boring etc. [quote]The MTX in the Destiny universe is still not pay to win. Ever since Eververse was introduced, the MTX haters, kept saying, "it will be a slippery slope." 4 years later, still just cosmetics.[/quote] MTX don’t have to be Pay to Win to be scummy and greedy. Eververse is all Cosmetic yes, but it’s still scummy and greedy. When a Game I (and the Majority of the Destiny Community) spent $180+ dollars on already between the Base Game and the Expansions/Annual Passes up to this point, and now Bungie wants to charge me extra for Cosmetic Items so we can look cool and Badass? For that 180+ dollars we all spent on D2 all of Eververse should be free of charge and to be obtainable via Raids, Strikes, Nightfalls etc. Call me Entitled all you want but I’m really not. I came from a era of gaming where when you bought a game, you got not only the game, but you got all the Cosmetics that came with it that unlocked via achievement such as “Beat (insert game here) on Heroic/Legendary Difficulty, beat (insert game here) on the Dark Side Ending etc. Cosmetics were apart of the Game, not an additional thing for a additional price tag. BL3 has been a breath of fresh air cause it takes me bsck to those days. I’m sad to see it, but the new Generation of Gaming is destroying the Industry and Games in general cause you guy’s excuse bad business models that rip more money out of people’s wallets then what Bungie has already made off the Game and its Expansions to this point. One last bit. [quote]You shouldn't say you don't hate Destiny and then list a bunch of the current things that make up D2 that you hate. Or say Destiny is great I love it, but hate Bungie. Without Bungie there is no Destiny.[/quote] You are so wrong here my dude. I’m allowed to hate certain business practices/models an the Direction that a Game is headed in and still like the franchise. I’ve liked that Destiny has been a Shooter Looter up to this point. But now Destiny is going into the direction of WoW and the whole FOMO Model of “had to be there when...” and Time Gating Loot and Activities only to remove them at the end of a Season which is stupid in every way imaginable. Bungie is designing the future of Destiny for the Freeloading No Lifers and Streamers (the Hardcore Player) and steering away from the Casual Players (not the Casuals that destroyed D2Y1 who want everything handed to them and for everything to be easy but the Casuals who have actual lives Families, Jobs/Careers, Kids, Girlfriends/Boyfriends Social Lives etc. who can’t play Destiny like a Full Time Job/Career like the Freeloading No Lifers and Streamers can that Bungie wants. Games are meant to be played as a pass time not a Career/Job that preys on FOMO. (Gotta do ABC before time runs out!! OH MY GOD!!! Go beat the clock or you will never get these bad ass looking cosmetics and loot!! And if you can’t play as much, pay us money to finish out your Battle Pass”) sorry, can’t play games that want me to revolve around IT rather IT revolve around ME and my schedule that I can just pick up and play at anytime at my leisure without pressure from a clock that I have to beat.

Should really try adding paragraphs. It actually makes reading large chunks of text easier. But to address some of your points. With Shadowkeep and all the seasons going forward, Bungie will be getting, the vast majority of profits. They will still have investors to pay, but most will go to them. Prior to Shadowkeep, Bungie only got between 20-35% of the profits made. So out of that $180 you've spent, you've only paid Bungie $36 - $63 dollars. Which oddly enough, is close to the same price you will pay going forward. If you have bought all of the content up until Shadowkeep, for $65 you get Shadowkeep and the next roughly 40 weeks of content. Post Activision, for anyone that hasn't spent any money on D2, they can buy all 3 years worth of content for $85. If you really can't afford $10 for 10 weeks of gaming, then I'm sorry, but not sure you should be gaming in the first place. Or perhaps shouldn't be playing D2. --‐------- Now, you say you don't like Bungie taking Destiny in a WoW like direction. I personally, love that they are taking it in that direction, and maybe that's a key factor in you and I not agreeing. ------------ Not sure what your issue with the seasonal rank system, is? I could see your issue, if it was an additional cost added onto having to pay the $10 for the season, but it isn't. It's included in the $10 price tag. And, as far as I can tell, is a direct response to many people on this forum, that don't want to be, "forced," into playing activities to get rewards. Certain rewards will simply be earned by gaining experience while playing. And if you just want to play the basic modes, you can play those modes, and gain rewards, all while paying nothing. And if you want to actually pay the $10, to get access to the other activities/weapon quests, you simply get those rewards quicker, and extras as well. ----------- Finally, CD Projekt is not a good example to use, when comparing games, and their use of MTX, imo. They are a single company, that has made a few games with one being a blockbuster, Witcher 3. But since they are a single company, they got almost all of those profits, so have tons of capital to put forth toward their next game. And Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, and I'm sure I will get it, when it comes out. Of course, I am an older gamer that makes enough money to have a decent gaming budget. So I can afford to pay for and play multiple games at a time. But look at Bungie's development history. The 2 gaming franchises that they help build, Halo, and Destiny, were built and published with large corporate backing. And Both Microsoft and Activision got the majority of money made from those franchises. If Bungie would have had more financial security from the beginning, like CD Projekt, and could have finished and sold Halo and Destiny 1 ,on their own, and not only received 20 to 40% of the profits, perhaps things would be different. MTX, would still probably be a thing however. Because building and selling games is still a business. And businesses need to make profits. Profits to cover their costs as well enticing investments from investors. If the gaming industry hadn't decided to lock gaming prices, not following the normal inflation rate, MTX would have been a less likely outcome. Base games would cost closer to $90 at this point. But that extra $30, would help cover the ever increasing cost of doing business. They instead, locked the price around $60, depending on your local taxes. And then introduced optional, additional ways for the gamers playing their games to spend money. And gamers started spending crap tons of money. GTA V, is the most profitable entertainment media of all time. It has made Rockstar 6.6 billion dollars. It is unrealistic to think other companies would see those profits, and not want to try to get some of that action. ----------- To wrap up. For the first time in Bungie's history, they have the full rights to a popular game. They are now free to either succeed or to fail on their own merits. You can either choose to support them on this endeavor and buy Shadowkeep and the following seasons. Or cry foul on them, and not continue to support them. And hell, you can keep playing basic Destiny 2, for absolutely nothing. Have a great day.

[quote]Should really try adding paragraphs. It actually makes reading large chunks of text easier. But to address some of your points. With Shadowkeep and all the seasons going forward, Bungie will be getting, the vast majority of profits. They will still have investors to pay, but most will go to them. Prior to Shadowkeep, Bungie only got between 20-35% of the profits made. So out of that $180 you've spent, you've only paid Bungie $36 - $63 dollars. Which oddly enough, is close to the same price you will pay going forward. If you have bought all of the content up until Shadowkeep, for $65 you get Shadowkeep and the next roughly 40 weeks of content. Post Activision, for anyone that hasn't spent any money on D2, they can buy all 3 years worth of content for $85. [quote]If you really can't afford $10 for 10 weeks of gaming, then I'm sorry, but not sure you should be gaming in the first place. Or perhaps shouldn't be playing D2.[/quote] It’s not that I CAN’T afford it. I can if I really wanted to. But paying $10 bucks for Content every Season with that Content that my $10 bucks goes to being removed at the end of a Season doesn’t scream “hey, give me money” to me. When I buy a product, I want to keep all my Content. Vex Offensive for Season of the Undying should stay permanently not get removed. --‐------- [quote]Now, you say you don't like Bungie taking Destiny in a WoW like direction. I personally, love that they are taking it in that direction, and maybe that's a key factor in you and I not agreeing.[quote] I like how they want to be an MMO like WoW. But it’s the whole “removing content WE pay for” is unacceptable and it’s literally theft when you think about it. They first take your money, then your Content is removed. That is extremely a bad business model and one I can’t support. ------------ [quote]Not sure what your issue with the seasonal rank system, is?[/quote] You don’t see the issue with Seasonal Ranks via Battle Pass? Allow me to explain. I’m sure you’ve heard it all over these forums. But by having Seasonal Cosmetic Loot and Activities as a Temporary thing that goes away after a Season literally heavily Weaponizes FOMO. By Time Gating Loot and Activities that we may enjoy doing. People don’t like being Psychologically Manipulated to play Destiny. With Bungie’s new direction for Destiny, it literally requires you to play Destiny as a Career/Full Time Job. There are many who agree. I could see your issue, if it was an additional cost added onto having to pay the $10 for the season, but it isn't. It's included in the $10 price tag. And, as far as I can tell, is a direct response to many people on this forum, that don't want to be, "forced," into playing activities to get rewards. Certain rewards will simply be earned by gaining experience while playing. And if you just want to play the basic modes, you can play those modes, and gain rewards, all while paying nothing. And if you want to actually pay the $10, to get access to the other activities/weapon quests, you simply get those rewards quicker, and extras as well. ----------- Finally, CD Projekt is not a good example to use, when comparing games, and their use of MTX, imo. They are a single company, that has made a few games with one being a blockbuster, Witcher 3. But since they are a single company, they got almost all of those profits, so have tons of capital to put forth toward their next game. And Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, and I'm sure I will get it, when it comes out. Of course, I am an older gamer that makes enough money to have a decent gaming budget. So I can afford to pay for and play multiple games at a time. But look at Bungie's development history. The 2 gaming franchises that they help build, Halo, and Destiny, were built and published with large corporate backing. And Both Microsoft and Activision got the majority of money made from those franchises. If Bungie would have had more financial security from the beginning, like CD Projekt, and could have finished and sold Halo and Destiny 1 ,on their own, and not only received 20 to 40% of the profits, perhaps things would be different. [quote]MTX, would still probably be a thing however. Because building and selling games is still a business. And businesses need to make profits. Profits to cover their costs as well enticing investments from investors.[/quote] I don’t have a problem with Businesses making a profit but it’s HOW they make that profit concerns me. MTX shouldn’t be one of them from Shadowkeep on out. Hell I’d settle for a -blam!-ing Monthly Subscription model over MTX at this point if it allows me to keep my Content and Loot not hidden behind Time Gates and preying on FOMO. [quote]If the gaming industry hadn't decided to lock gaming prices, not following the normal inflation rate, MTX would have been a less likely outcome. Base games would cost closer to $90 at this point. But that extra $30, would help cover the ever increasing cost of doing business.[/quote] Considering Bungie has multiple editions for D2 at launch, I’d say they weren’t locked on the price the Gaming Industry has set. And seeing Shadowkeep having multiple editions depending on how well it sells (which I’m guessing not very well due to many who agree with my side of the concern for the future of Destiny and are abandoning the franchise as well as me) then Bungie won’t need MTX. But my over all point is, Warframe gets by with one stream of income and CDPR is getting by on one stream of Income, Bungie can as well. Hell Borderlands has one stream of Income and they’re on track to creating DLC. Needing MTX to thrive is a fallacy. They instead, locked the price around $60, depending on your local taxes. And then introduced optional, additional ways for the gamers playing their games to spend money. And gamers started spending crap tons of money. GTA V, is the most profitable entertainment media of all time. It has made Rockstar 6.6 billion dollars. It is unrealistic to think other companies would see those profits, and not want to try to get some of that action. ----------- To wrap up. For the first time in Bungie's history, they have the full rights to a popular game. They are now free to either succeed or to fail on their own merits. You can either choose to support them on this endeavor and buy Shadowkeep and the following seasons. Or cry foul on them, and not continue to support them. And hell, you can keep playing basic Destiny 2, for absolutely nothing. Have a great day.[/quote]