That's not a rebuttal, slappy. But you don't have one so thanks for demonstrating you got owned. If you bought division 2 at launch and you're not done with endgame by now, it's you that's the casual. You're still messing with your builds? Wow, really? Because i have every perk for every piece worth keeping and all my stats maxed on 3 different builds and that took me a week and a half, nearly 2 weeks. And I wasn't even rushing at all.

Actually it is. ...and you think you won a checkers, when I just kicked your ass at chess. [quote]If you bought division 2 at launch and you're not done with endgame by now, it's you that's the casual.[/quote] Nope. It means that---starting with the original Diablo---I actually LEARNED how to play these kinds of games and how to interact CREATIVELY with familiar content. Because back then there was no way to conveniently update or expand a game. Since there was no broadband internet...and no cheap mass storage like today. So you either learned how to create your own fun with what was there....or you went and played a different game. I can see that I took the former approach....and you took the latter. I'm hardly a casual. I have FIVE builds...and considering starting a second character so that I can experiment with others ones. Since the game only allows you to conveniently work with five. Once this weeks patch drops....and we finally find out how Massive decides to retune the game....I'll be back to happily retooling my existing builds....and seeing what interesting new ones are possible. Looking like skill builds will be more viable after the retuning. [quote] Because i have every perk for every piece worth keeping and all my stats maxed on 3 different builds and that took me a week and a half, nearly 2 weeks. And I wasn't even rushing at all.[/quote] ...and that mindset is why you are always running out of things to do. Because you interact with the content in a limited way.

There aren't 5 builds that are fun to use. So you're not proving anything by having 5. And you said yourself you STOPPED PLAYING and are waiting for the raid to find more options. The difference between me and you is that i understand the builds better so I didn't need to make 5 builds to know they're crap. Through trial and error, you can easily see what's worth your time and what isn't. 5 builds and you stopped playing because you found out there's nothing interesting about them. You're proving my point. If you have 5 builds going and still found a reason to stop playing, just stop talking dude. There's all of 3 or 4 builds even viable for heroic. Everything else is useless to you. You said yourself you are waiting to see what they'll do to fix things in the next update. This means you're bored and you are out of stuff you can do or want to do. End game is thin and boring. You're [i] actually[/i] gonna defend division 2's loot? Say that with a straight face. I DARE you. Even you quit. a guy that tries to expose others by likening them to casuals if they run out of things to at end game. This is the easiest check mate I've ever gotten lol.

[quote]There aren't 5 builds that are fun to use[/quote] Oh sure there are. Just because YOU haven't found them....doesn't mean that they don't exist. I'm only using five because the game makes it inconvenient to use MORE than five. 1. Specialist Markman. I run a high end build based around the brand that gives you bonuses for rifle damage (IIRC) . I have him spec'ed out for damage, armor and health...and very little skill power. Since this is basically a DPS class. I run a Police Mk. 17 with Lucky (missed shots returned to magazine) and Allegro. An M60 with Unhinged and Allegro since I generally take the crowd-control role. I also carry the Liberty exotic side arm for the holstered perk which partially refills the magazine when you damage armor and other weak points. Pairs very well with LMGs. 2. On Directive Demolitionist. My favorite. Its a hybrid build. I've speced out the gear set for skill power, blast damage, bleed damage, and "exotic" damage resistance. Which has allowed me on more than one occasion to simply TANK status effect attacks. Especially the chemical and ensare attacks that the True Sons like to use. I running a god-rolled MP-5 with STrained and allegro, with the same M-60 and exotic side-arm. I used to run a high-end back pack because I didn't like the six piece bonus. but with the proposed changes in this weeks patch, I swapped in the sixth piece. Not having to switch weapons to take advantage of the special ammo perk will make that perk a LOT more useful. 3. High-end Demolitionist. This is a more balanced build around demolistionist. Spec'ed for more fire arm damage and less for exotic damage. I find it more useful---and survivable----when playing the open world as a Demolitionist. 4. On Directive Survivalist. This build I use in situations where I need damage tailored for high priority target damage rather than area of effect. Since I find the crossbow better for that than the grenade launcher (its weak against armored targets) I run a god-rolled G36 Assault riflle with the talent for increased damage against targets on fire, and Allegro. I run the same M-60 and exotic sidearm. Shotguns are underpowered in this game, so I don't bother with them. This build will be absolute brutal in that crowd control roll with the changes to this gear set. 5. High-end Survivalist. Like the Demolitionist version, this is a more balanced build. Spec'ed for more firearm damage...and more survivable in solo and Open world play. I'm currently working on completing the "Hard Wired" gear set....I have two of the six pieces. I'm currently working on getting the Nemesis sniper rifle. I have all the componets and just waiting for the mission where you get the blueprint. That weapon is going to be a REALLY nasty addition to a Marksman build. I think I'll swap out the Liberty side arm and the M-60 for the Nemesis. So you 'd have a rifle and two powerful sniper rifles. The Barrett's .50 cal...for fast-moving targets..and the Nemesis for slower moving, more armored targets. I have ideas for several other builds, hence the thoughts about starting to second character. Especially if skill-based attacks get a significant buff. Just because YOU can only see a few things worth using, do NOT assume that I'm operating under the same limitation. All you're seeing are the builds that I find MOST EFFICIENT for my preferred play style and enemies we're currently facing. But don't believe for a second that these are the only possibilities I see even in the present sandbox. Never mind the upcoming one.

BOOORRRIIINNGGG. Dude all you're doing is showing how lackluster division 2's builds and loot are. I've already got nemesis and it's not that great. I've got liberty and it's just ok. Any other regular gun like the DE .50 is comparable to it. I've already built several variants of demo builds. They're ok. They're not amazing. Marksman 700 build gives highest DPS for marksman class because nemesis is vastly inconsistent for dps. And trust me, I've screwed around with variants of almost everything you're doing here and most of it is trash in heroic. To say i haven't "found" these builds is laughable. You enjoy division in the same way a dog enjoys chasing a ball across a room. You're championing mediocrity. You cannot tell me there's that much interesting in division 2 at end game worthy of putting hundreds or thousands of hours into. For all the subpar builds one can make in div 2, you're still grinding the same 10-15 missions over and over again and going the DZ. All 5 builds and for what? To grind one of a small selection of strongholds for the 90th time? No thanks. I'm sorry bro, maybe you're that easily entertained but not me.

1. Boring to you. You don't speak for me. 2. No, I'm showing you how build making works in a min-maxing game and what are the best build for MY PERSONAL play style. Which---in The Division---is a support/crowd control role. So all my builds are optimized for THAT role....or are more balanced for solo play. But there are tons of options for pure support builds. Pure DPS builds...and hybrid (7/7/7) builds in between. With the retuning of the game, skill DPS builds and tank builds will likely see a comeback. 3. You simply have a high need for novelty....and engage the content of the game in a narrow way....because you become bored before you dig deep enough to engage in a more substantive way. Then operate under the false assumption that your personalty traits...and personal tastes define what is "real" and "right" for everyone else. They don't. They simply define [i]you. [/i] 4. Dogs chase balls, because that's the "prey instinct" they inherited from their wolf ancestors. So yes....my dog loves to play fetch. But he also scares the PISS out of anything small enough to get in his mouth in the neighborhood. I assure you that the squirrels, rabbits, and the occasional house cat that he tears after don't consider his behavior to be "mediocre". They're too busy running for their lives to consider much of anything, I'd imagine. I am grateful that he never developed the instinct to chase after cars. [i]We don't see the world as it is. We see the world as WE are. [/i] Your boredom with the game tells us more about you, than it does about the game.

Yeah. Or it's just a subpar, generic looter shooter that got bombed at creating fun loot. Other games have done loot and end game undeniably and vastly better. By the way, the whole cliche "if you're bored, then you're boring" phrase was created by people that are failures at entertaining people. Some of us are deep enough to know that. The rest are easily amused sheep. We know which category you fall under.

[quote]Or it's just a subpar, generic looter shooter that got bombed at creating fun loot.[/quote] ...and you would be in a VERY tiny minority of players who feel that way. [quote]Other games have done loot and end game undeniably and vastly better.[/quote] Such as? (Grabs chair, and sits down with bowl of popcorn...) [quote]Some of us are deep enough to know that. The rest are easily amused sheep. We know which category you fall under.[/quote] That would be the "[i]Old enough and wise enough to know that taste is PERSONAL" [/i]category. The people who try to define the world objectively in terms of their subjective experience mark themselves as either young....or not particularly observant. I can't stand German Chocolate cake. Hate the nuts. Hate the coconut even more. Doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it....or anyone who likes it. Its just not for me. I simply prefer Devil's food.....

Borderlands 1 and 2 and 3 is guaranteed to blow div 2 away. every Diablo game, Warframe, basically most of the best classic RPG games you can think of, i can name a half dozen final fantasy games with better loot. Including ff11 online and 14 online, World of Warcraft, both destiny 1 and 2 have better loot than division 2. Let's see, The entire elder scrolls series, Nioh, Torchlight, Don't even get me started on on the vast number of D&D games with better loot. Divinity original sin 1 and 2. The guild wars 2, monster Hunter world, path of exile, the Zelda series, Grim Dawn, dude the list of games that demolishes division 2 is so long, I'd run out of characters to write it all. It goes back even further than games like Ultima online and Diablo. You have NOT played many games if you actually think there isn't a sickeningly immense list of games that blow div 2 away at loot. You do not know what you're talking about at all. You just destroyed your own credibility putting division above the entire history of loot based games.

More isn't better. The guns in both Borderlands games are not very good, and for me---frankly---not very fun to play with. Borderlands 3 hasn't been released. So---unless you've had hands-on time with the game----you're not in position to say very much about that the game is like. Warframe is a game that is 7 years old. I can assure you that the Warframe of 2019 is NOTHING like the Warframe of 2014. I played that game...and it was such a disorganized mess of a game....that I put it down after an hour, and didn't pick it up again for another 3 years. YES, but Summer 2017, Warframe was a great game. But only after 5 YEARS of constant refining and improvement. Which Warframe was able to do in relative obscurity. Digital Extremes deserves credit for this...but we're not going to pretend that Warframe dropped on the world in that condition...because it didn't. World of Warcraft is a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD game, that....like Warframe...has undergone constant refinement. In no small part because the game is a billion-dollar a year CASH COW for Blizzard that no only pays for itself, but funds the development of other games as well. Never mind you've broken genre and are now trying to compare MMOs to loot games. Destiny 1 or 2 having better loot? ROFLMAO. Destiny games have spent most of the franchise's life being TERRIBLE loot games. Bad drop rates. Shallow perk pools. Constant nerfs due to PvP. A toxic cycle of the developers giving us power with each new content drop....adn then taking that power away as complaints form PVP roll in. Monster Hunter World I can't comment on because I haven't played it enough. But once again you are talking about a VERY old franchise that has had YEARS to refine its formula in relative obscurity. As for the rest, you're just throwing spaghetti at a wall hoping something will stick. The only other loot game in that mix is Diablo....which is a franchise...that has had over 20 years to refine itself. The rest is a hodge-podge of MMOs and RPGs that arent' even loot games. So...once again...thanks for making my point. When you do manage to come up with some apples-to-apples comparisons....you know where to find me.

Omg you are such a casual NOOB at gaming. You even saying div 2 has better loot than [i]any[/i] game deserves a slap across your noggin. There's no debating such s casual gamer like yourself who actually thinks loot in borderlands was done wrong. You have literally zero idea what a good loot game is and haven't even played most of the games on my list. The point is that by comparison, most games do loot better than div 2. Almost all games I've played aside from Anthem which sucked ass. Switching genres doesn't change the crux of the topic which is LOOT. And most other games do loot way better than div 2 did. All exotics in div 2 are useless trash and you have the actual balls to say borderlands did loot worse. Now that is a complete destruction of your pathetic credibility. Hands down the absolute most noob statement I've ever even heard anyone say in my entire history. You didn't even play borderlands, just stop LYING dude. You're such a fake. Talking like you know your facts when you're exposing yourself as a complete NOOB on loot. Conversation over. I don't associate with noobs who know nothing about games at all.

Name-calling and insults== "I just lost the arguments on the merits". Yes....you did.

Furthermore, they just released a new update today in division and the only new content is 2 missions that offer BACKPACK TROPHIES. And a raid coming that will offer ONE new exotic. WOOOOOOOOOWWWWW....... Lemme just fire up division 2 right now, i'm SO excited. Zzzzzz........ The loot is so trash in division 2 they can't come up with anything better than new backpack trophies right now and one exotic meanwhile there's nothing to be excited for because every exotic in the game is less powerful than high end****cough****common***cough**** drops. And you think division 2 has better loot than the most highly rated games in history that i mentioned. Shut. The. Funk. Up. You lose, dude.

You provided zero merits. If you can't say you played a good deal of the games i mentioned and you have to fake knowing about how good loot works, that means you came with zero for me to offer a rebuttal to. I mean you're a guy who thought borderlands had crap loot which means you didn't play any raids, you basically called some of the greatest games of all time crap and then hid from trying to reply about other games by saying they were only good after years of development. Which is a cop out. We're talking about the state of the loot in the games, not how long it took to get there. Division 2 needs a massive loot overhaul because there's nothing but junk to play for. In 3 years, the loot system will be the same crap. Same as division 1. Grind for a hundred drops just to get 1 perk or stat that's better to min max your build..... BOOORRRIIINNGGG...... In borderlands 2 you have hundreds of guns all with their own look, feel, firing visual effects, guns with their own unique personalities and double the amount of synergies than division 2 guns have because they don't just synergize with your few measly pieces of gear. They synergize with the elements you use, the gear you wear, the class you're using, the skills you have built around them in accordance with the vast number of ways you can build your skill trees. And you have to fight your ass off in raids and against rare, sometimes hard to find bosses so you have to work for it to be able to say you earned it. Unlike division 2 that rains the same yellow high end loot by the dozens and you're just saturated with some many of the same pieces you don't feel like there's any reward to what you're doing because high end loot is just common loot in div 2. There's no accomplishment in getting it, no real feeling of reward for your work. That is factually [i]bad loot,[/i] you ignoramous fool. You lie about playing borderlands because it's blatantly obvious you either didn't play it at all, or didn't play til end game, didn't find the best guns, didn't know how the loot system worked and it's clear you're just BSing your way through the debate now. You didn't even deny it when i accused you of not having played it. You call it name calling, but it's a fact you're a casual noob gamer who thinks division 2 is the Pinnacle of gaming loot. That means you're in a margin of people who are sheep and who don't understand loot. There's nothing more I need to prove because you already shot your own foot. You're a casual. You already quit division 2, and If it's so great and so extensive and you're such a hardcore endgame player, why are you done playing so soon after division 2's release... I'll tell you why. There's no content left to play and the loot sucks àss. You're beat dude, you got nothing for me. Let it go, kid, it's over.

@kelly and redcell. Maybe you should start personal conversation about division 😉 I play division like I thought I would. Couple of weeks of fun and than comming back every once in a while to play with some friends. Try the raid later on. I'm fine with that and am more on red's side in this. Don't care to much about the min max and builds because there's not much of a reason to build them cause you're just playing the same missions anyway. But let's get back to topic. Remove cores from infusion! 😎

[quote]Don't care to much about the min max and builds because there's not much of a reason to build them cause you're just playing the same missions anyway.[/quote] The content plays differently depending on your build and your play style. It may be the same mission....but its not the same EXPERIENCE if you're playing it as a marksman or LMG/support player hanging in the back supporting the push of the DPS players. Versus being in the thick of the fight as a tank with a riot shield controlling agro for the most dangerous NPCs on screen, and taking pressure off the DPS and support players.

If you enjoy that than I'm happy for you. I enjoyed the exploration of the world, weapons, perks and types of enemies. Finding out what works. Getting the huntermasks. Things like that. Playing the same shit over and over again to get diferent builds to do the same thing just doesn't interest me. And of course I've tried some diferent builds and weapons but the missions are still the same to me. The 'challenge' just isn't there fore me. Lets compare it to destiny. It's like playing the same strikes over and over again. Try diferent karakters supers and weapons. Sure. But it's stil the same strikes over and over again. I'll go play it every once in a while and when there's something new to do like the raid I'll pick it up again. But claiming the endgame of division is really deep... na.. not really. Not to me at least.

[quote]Playing the same shit over and over again to get diferent builds to do the same thing just doesn't interest me. [/quote] Which is---ultimately----the end game of every loot-based game that has ever been made. Taste in games is personal...and if you don't like that kind of game play...there is nothnig wrong with that. As long as you aren't playing a game that is designed around that kind of game play, and expecting it to be something else. The end-game of The Division 2 is quite deep. Its just a depth that doesn't appeal to you (personally) as a gamer.

Let's agree to disagree about the depth. I'm looking for prgression. Iff there's no incentive to progress ore even real progression it gets boring to me