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3/22/2019 2:09:04 PM
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It's a game/hobby, not a job.
Not everyone will/can get everything in a game like Destiny. That, in and of itself, is a good thing. Some people will complete challenges, triumphs and milestones faster than others. That too, is a good thing.
Diversity among the population of any community is always a good thing for both the community and for whatever the community is associated with.
But people need to stop confusing "hard work" with an investment of time. It is almost always preferable to work "smarter" not "harder". An please make no mistake, the quotes around each of these terms is to illustrate that both are HIGHLY subjective when it comes to something like Destiny. Just like how much "skill" something requires, or how "good/bad" something is to one player vs another.
[quote]The goal of the infusion system is to create an impactful feeling of progression when you increase the Power of an item you enjoy using. An infusion system with no scarcity around the materials would diminish this impact. To that end, we tapped into a material with inherent scarceness, Enhancement Cores, to use as one of the keystone materials for this process.[/quote]
This is Bungie's response to player feedback on enhancement cores.
[quote]The goal of the infusion is to create and impactful feeling of progression when you increase the power of an item you enjoy.[/quote]
Dear developer, YOU do not "create" feelings. You create systems, and players work within those systems to achieve their personal goals. How they "feel" is derived from their own PERSONAL sense of accomplishment, not from the system itself. So if one player spends 4 hours a day, and another is only able to spend 4 hours a week, the goal should not be to control how either of them "feels" at the end of their respective play times, but rather to create systems that ENABLE and ENCOURAGE them to set their own goals and achieve their OWN level of success.
[quote]An infusion system with no scarcity around the materials would diminish this impact. To that end, we tapped into a material with inherent scarceness, Enhancement Cores, to use as one of the keystone materials for this process.[/quote]
Wrong. A lack of meaningful PROGRESS is what diminishes the impact. It has nothing to do with the materials. In D1, we had to work to unlock the full potential of the gear, but there was no barrier other than our TIME to that progress because all of the materials required to progress were controlled by us, not by RNG, not by item scarcity, by the player. So the 4hr per day player and the 4hr per week player truly had the same opportunity to obtain what was necessary for progression.
But in D2, you have created a weekly cycle, that PUNISHES players who are not able to log on everyday. Because the access specific materials are tied to this cycle. Which means that someone who plays everyday is not subject to the idea of an "impactful feeling", while the player who is on a few times a week, not only feels it, but is in fact PUNISHED for it. So ultimately, one player feels nothing, and the other player is pushed into a situation where the whole process "feels" negative.
That is poor design, as it is contrary to player engagement and in some ways your stated goals.
People either, don't care(because they have enough time to trivialize the system despite your intended goal), or they find it frustrating(because it is prohibitive to the amount of time they are able to invest in progression). Either way, the system is bad for everyone involved.
Power level is arbitrary in Destiny. It is a number, nothing more. It holds no actual value in regards to player time, status or investment. It is simply a barrier to limit player access to content. Being 650 doesn't "feel" anymore powerful than being 400 at the end of year 1. THAT is the problem with your system, not how slow or fast players are able to reach a given power cap.
[quote]...progression when you increase the power of an item [b]you enjoy[/b].[/quote]
Except you have removed that control from the player. By limiting what items remain relevant season to season. By curating the loot pools to only include seasonal items. By relying on RNG as the basis of your loot system.
You have effectively removed the ability for the average player to truly "enjoy" anything, as they are constantly chasing and arbitrary number. Instead players have to wait for RNG to drop an items for a particular slot. Then they have to hope that item has rolls that are suited to their play style. Then they have to weigh the cost of bringing that items up to a particular level. And then, only then, will they truly know if that item is something that they will "enjoy". And if it isn't? Guess what?
Their investment in both time and materials is nullified. So what you end up with are people using what they find, even if it isn't what they enjoy. Or using what they enjoy, even if it isn't the optimal gear for a given situation.
Which again, is contrary to any idea of this system having a positive impact on player enjoyment.
Do you know what the real kicker is?
NONE OF THIS ACTUALLY MATTERS BECAUSE YOUR GAME SYSTEMS ARE DESIGNED TO MAKE POWER LEVEL ARBITRARY...
It is just a number. Nothing more. And the fact that some people can power through, trivializing the system and the content, means that in the end, what -blam!-ing difference does it make in who is using what and when they are able to use it.
Infusion should be materials based. End of story. Enhancement cores should be for masterworking items that players ENJOY. The fact that players can ignore the whole system, just use what drops, and still reach max level, is a clear indication of how pointless controlling infusion really is.
All you have done with the system as it stands is to illustrate how meaningless a lot of the controls you added to the game, a lot of the perks, a lot of the mods, skills, etc. Really are.
Your logic is flawed. And the game will always suffer for it.
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This post is perfect. The infusion system is horrible. I either wear all Reverie Dawn gear and work in the Dreaming City to try to get all my armor upgrades (to minimize my enhancement core usage) or I just throw on the highest crap I get and disregard the perks. Destiny 2 has already felt more like a chore than a hobby for as long as I can remember. Enhancement cores do not impact the meaningfulness of upgrading an item. It just hinders me from making my characters look good and use the gear I want them to. I've masterworked one weapon on my own...and I doubt I ever will again.
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I swear bungie removed my star for this post.
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3 RepliesDear devs, I literally went back to D1 because your ideas are so bad. Don’t even remotely miss D2. Except for ledge grab. Dear bungie, fire everybody except your art team and go back to your old ways.
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1 ReplyPlease wait and buy our next expansion for infusion/core fix. No money no fix - Bungie
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I play once or twice a week with my friend who bought the game a month ago. I stopped playing because all of the new interesting weapons are locked behind obnoxiously long bounties. Playing the game feels like a chore, so I stopped playing.
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1 ReplyEdited by Xc_LuxZenRa: 3/26/2019 3:21:00 PMpass this to the Dev Team. Let us be very clear! [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251450868?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]Edited Version: Those that Prefer No Emoji's~Follow Me.[/url] Bungie: 🤭We Hear you! Bungie: 🥳based on your feedback🥳 we will Remove Scrapper Bounties and add Gunsmith Bounties to earn more cores. Community:😐😑 IT WON'T BE ENOUGH! THIS IS NOT A FIX!😤😡🤬 Bungie: 🧐We Hear you!..🖕Ahem: Our hope(Just Leave it alone🧟♂️ Guardians)is that this increased access and control😈over Enhancement Core acquisition will help improve the balance of materials being earned vs. materials being used.🤥🤫 Community:🗣 Bungie, 🗣🗣BUNgie, BUNGIE!!🗣🗣🗣 don't you get it??? [b]“If enhancement cores are removed from infusion, the problem will be ________.” [/b]🙏🙏🙏🤨🤨😡 Bungie: 🙄...infusion won’t be as impactful. 🕴🏼We keep a close eye on the amount of infusion materials being earned versus how many are being used and will continue to make adjustments as needed.” Community: 💩🤮🤯🤯🤯😫🙅♀️🙅♂️😡😤 1)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418699?sort=0&page=0]Wow Even the Forbes Guy Thinks Your TWAB Solution Is Terrible[/url] 2)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418262?sort=0&page=0]It's a game/hobby, not a job.[/url] 3)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251417963?sort=0&page=0]Paul Tassi said it perfectly![/url] 4) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418573?sort=0&page=0]FORBES:[/url] 5)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251463085?sort=0&page=0] Bungie. Listen. To. Your. Community.[/url] 6)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418097?sort=0&page=0]At this point, Bungie is begging us to boycott the game[/url] 7)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251412308?sort=0&page=0]The TWABs (Solution) To Enhancement Cores is Unacceptable[/url] 8)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251422793?sort=0&page=0]Can we get rid of stupid enhancement cores?[/url] 9) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251452307?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]Play a Game Where The Devs Listen[/url] 10)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251411799?sort=0&page=0]Enahancement core changes show bungie doesn't care about our feedback.[/url] 11)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251428261?sort=0&page=0]The Core Poll[/url] 12) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251414088?sort=0&page=0]#CoresRemoveChoice and a Proposing a Boycott?[/url] 13) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251456236?sort=0&page=0]Why do changes take so long?[/url] 14) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251464650?sort=0&page=0]I'm waiting for Enhancement Cores to show up in bundle packages[/url] 15)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251419308?sort=0&page=0]Let's show bungie they need to remove master cores or change to only one per infushion please up vote![/url] 16)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251410810?sort=0&page=0]#Remove enhancement cores[/url] 17) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251464433?sort=0&page=0]#Remove enhancement cores from infusing[/url] 18)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251436487?sort=0&page=0]#Remove enhancement cores from infusing bungie[/url] 19)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251416524?sort=0&page=0]Remove Infusion Cores simply to gain back some customer goodwill[/url] 20) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251453120?sort=0&page=0]REMOVE. CORES. FROM INFUSION. COSTS.[/url] 21)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418537?sort=0&page=0]You should start listening to your community rather than say your listening[/url] 22)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251411913?sort=0&page=0]THE INVESTMENT TEAM IS TONE DEAF![/url] 23)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251419439?sort=0&page=0]Ditch the cores![/url] 24)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251438928?sort=0&page=0]The Infusion Problem Will Get Worse Each Season[/url] 25)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251416147?sort=0&page=0]The enhancement core bounties are no fix[/url] 26) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251427662?sort=0&page=0]Why replace scrapper bounties when you can have both?[/url] 27) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418315?sort=0&page=0]The amount of ways you get Enhancement Cores is not the problem. It's how wasteful using them for infusion is.[/url] 28)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251411497?sort=0&page=0]Are you happy with the announced changes regarding Enhancement Cores next season?[/url] 29) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251422336?sort=0&page=0]Is Bungie Not Gonna Address 95% Of The Communities Concern?[/url] 30) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251345297?sort=0&page=0]The leveling is still bad[/url] 31)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251436069?sort=0&page=0]Congrats Bungie![/url] 32) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418266?sort=0&page=0]Thank you Bungie Dev Team! I finally made a "meaningful choice"[/url] 33) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251439614?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]Masterwork cores need to return. #coresremovechoice[/url] 34) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251464519?sort=0&page=0]Last screams of the missing neighbours[/url] 35) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418636?sort=0&page=0]Tired of my characters looking like patch work dolls for the sake of light level[/url] 36)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251412287?sort=0&page=0]Bungie doesn’t respect player time investment[/url] 37) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251461764?sort=0&page=0]Bungie doesn't read any feedbacks written in other languages.[/url] 38)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418128?sort=0&page=0]Bungie out of touch[/url] 39)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251413867?sort=0&page=0]Strengthen Your Core (from a players perspective)[/url] 40)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251441917?sort=0&page=0]A unique perspective on cores and infusing[/url] 41)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418132?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=0]Letter to Devs -[/url] 42) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251450868?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]A Message to the Bungie Team! -Click Me-[/url] 43) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251441735?sort=0&page=0]Don’t give up on destiny[/url] 44)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251463732?sort=0&page=0] Make your case for KEEPING enhancement cores as part of INFUSION.[/url] 45) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251434856?sort=0&page=0]Open invitation to any Bungie developers that would like to have a discussion with the forum community on investment and progression[/url] Bungie: 😣😬🤐🤐🤐 Thinking:*😏 We told em in the TWAB the changes won't come until next season😆. that gives us more than enough time to come up with another Non-solution. 😎GG Team...GG.* Bungie: 👮♂️Guardians, guardians...👮♀️Settle Down. 🕴🏼You know Us.🕴🏼 Remember the Good old 🕹Halo Days(We Sure Don't)!? I can 🙄assure you that we are listening(⚙️⚙️⚙️). As always, we’ll be continuously 😴monitoring this item economy, along with your 💩feedback to assess its effectiveness.” [url=https://youtu.be/87pr-fguT8I]Destiny 2 Leveling is Still Bad[/url] [url=https://youtu.be/QXGoaFCtX6I]Destiny 2 Leveling Easy Fix[/url]
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I wish I could take some duct tape and stick this post at the top of the forums, with a big green neon sign next to it. Well said.
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35 RepliesStreamers ruined the game. Change my mind.
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2 RepliesMakes me sad that bungie passed by this thread without stopping by.
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38 RepliesThis was never a job. I don’t understand why you guys think that just because you have to grind something you have to complain. IT REQUIRES 3 CORES TO INFUSE.
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3 RepliesTheirs no reason to infuse until 700....
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3 RepliesWhat I don’t understand is why they changed anything at all. The D1 system was perfect. Why didn’t they just carry it over? That goes for factions and stuff too. Age of Triumph was the height of the franchise. It makes logical sense to use what works, and yet Bungie refuses to do it
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Best feedback post on these forums period! Well organized, straight to the point. I genuinely feel the same as OP, if we stop and think about these statements they are spot on. I really enjoy the thought of Destiny. I really want this franchise to be great it has the potential to be just that. However because of these systems forced on us I haven’t switched the game on. I still miss the feelings and fun I had throughout D1 even though the first year was flawed. By the end of the cycle it was truly amazing. I pre-ordered D2 hoping the fun would continue but none of the upgrades brought into post-ROI were brought forward. Instead it felt think I was forced to play some crude copy of my favorite game being punished week after week. Make Destiny great again.
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1 ReplyBorder lands 3, confirmed
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3 RepliesAgree with all that you have said, especially about the average player enjoying anything. I am lucky in that I am retired and play everyday for about eight hours or so but it is becoming tiresome. I use different farming strategies including Spider's simulation seeds etc but it is a chore. For example I have went from level 650 to 699 approx in just under three weeks using crap armour load outs that I do not like or want and weapons at times that feel under powered etc and used about 60 - 70 cores. Yes, I could have waited for a power level jump of between 10- 20 but why should I have to. I feel gutted for the players that only play 4 -5 hours per week if they are lucky due to family and work commitments. It certainly would not be my first game of choice if I was in that situation. Oh and if you are reading Bungie another two quick points if I may: Why should I play Gambit Prime when you throw me into a game where my team have deposited zero motes and the other team have about 10% left on their primeval and then deduct 2 points from my bounty when we lose. Idiots!!! Why throw me into a Tier 3 when there are 90 secs to go on the Knights boss fight and expect me to insert mote, jump down, run across a map, run up a runway and through a portal etc and then expect me to have any meaningful influence on the outcome when the place is in utter chaos. To make matters worse lol I then see the following "the nine are unmoved by your performance" well Bungie "bohi66 is pissed off by your performance" Apologies WickedEarth for going off topic at the end but just had to say it.
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How could Bungie argue with such sound logic? They don't have a leg to stand on. Nothing Bungie has ever said to justify any of the shady, underhanded, artificial systems they've implemented into D2 have ever sounded even half as intelligible and well thought out as this. Bungie has turned to the dark side and it's quite obvious they don't want to learn from their mistakes. They continue to make this game all about them and what they want, meanwhile other triple A looter shooters are listening to their communities and are actively trying to improve in-game systems to benefit the player to at least some degree. To me personally, it sounds like the removal of scrapper bounties and implementation of these new Banshee bounties will net us less cores than we can acquire now. Bungie clearly isn't going to ever listen though. It's so sad that this game's success is in the hands of such dense developers.
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Agree.
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4 RepliesYeah! I'm tired of not playing competitive and not getting the lunas howl. They need to give it to everybody, I cant be bothered with playing the game to get stuff. Same for anarchy, idk how many times I'm sitting at the tower not doing the raid and I NEVER get the anarchy. Its getting rediculous.
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6 RepliesSomehow it seems that Bungie thinks I want to invest a ton of time just to use the weapons I enjoy... How can I even know if I enjoy them when I can't even keep using it due to the costs of infusion being so high? I've only been able to infuse 4 or 5 items ever since reaching above 650, and it's a bit tiring at this point. I just want to try a pulse rifle, but I haven't gotten one in a drop and the infusion costs are so steep that I can't afford to infuse weapons [u][b]I WANT TO TRY![/b][/u]
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12 RepliesWhere’s the communication from Bungie? Do they not have the cojones to talk to their community from behind a screen? They were doing good for awhile there.
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Then why are you required to play this game like a job for specific rewards? I.E Not Forgotten.
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2 RepliesI really wish they would have some sort of response or SOMETHING for this. This is a really well thought out legitimate Arguement. I’m tired of this stuff getting ignored because this is not a rant. These are facts. I would respect them more if they would atleast respond to things like this and not put their heads in the sand.
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Funny. In D1, you can do ONE DAILY HEROIC and get 35 Legendary Mark's per day, with you being able to do 4 more with 20 Legendary Mark's each in the same day if you kept on going. You needed to be a decent Light level to unlock them, but it was worth it. This system worked and made sense. I don't know why Bungies thin-headed skull thought Enchancement Cores would be a good idea.
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1 ReplyIt’s kinda interesting. If the new gambit horde mode didn’t require higher light level for the higher tiers, there’d literally be zero point in even getting your light level higher. It doesn’t help you against players outside of a week long game mode that happens seldom (which is in itself weird people it’s a primarily PVE level of power) and we’ve all been thrashing all the raids at 650. So the only thing light level does is make it take longer to do the new gambit. That’s it.
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Edited by BossManTings88: 3/24/2019 1:15:30 PMI like what I’ve read here whets is quest for weapons like the sol edge/bolt caster/dark drinker no walls to progression only the amount time you invest for I remember staying up all night to farm Russia for the 10 drops from planetary resources to finish that step What I feel would be a better option is that cores for instance would be better if they dropped random from stuff but rewarded a better quantity for a specific task ie the spider bounty like 3 cores or some shit like that
