I have some questions #Offtopic:
First, how can America be a Democratic country when the president was elected with a minority of the popular vote? [spoiler] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-lost-popular-vote-hillary-clinton-us-election-president-history-a7470116.html[/spoiler] How is it possible the majority party in the senate represents a minority of of the the total population of the United States, and the same is true for the house of representatives? [spoiler] https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/07/12/americas-electoral-system-gives-the-republicans-advantages-over-democrats[/spoiler]
How can there states where a party with a majority of party votes has less control over the state legislator compared to the actual legislative majority? [spoiler] https://www.denverpost.com/2017/06/25/gerrymandering-2016-election/[/spoiler]
I call into question the legitimacy of not only the current “majority” party into question but the entire governmental system. How can a system that allows corporate interests to literally write laws, and disregards public opinion a legitimate governmental system? [spoiler] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/04/how-corporate-lobbyists-conquered-american-democracy/390822/[/spoiler] [spoiler] https://www.dancarlin.com/common-sense-home-landing-page/[/spoiler]
What legitimacy does a government that claims to exist in support of the people and by the people but instead is run by international corporations and banks which completely ignore public opinion? A country where the majority party hold a minority population? I ask, honestly. How does anybody reconcile the hypocrisy of such a system?
Edit: As I have seen the same comment used over and over I’m simply going to address it within this edit. First, this topic is discussing the MERITS of the political system, not asking WHAT the political system is. I am not saying America has X political system. I am saying the way the political system currently operates is not only a failure, but in total contradiction to the founding principles of the founding documents of the country. Saying: “America is a democratic republic” does not address my criticisms of the system, and it generally misses the point. Thank you.
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Changing it to a majority vote would take power from each state without huge urban cities... The rural farming states need to have a say as well... their needs are different then a urban area’s needs. I’m not against questioning things... but it’s going to cost a large chunk of people their little power, and give it to the states that already have the most...
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America isn’t a democracy and therefore cannot be critiqued as one. Democracy leads to mob rule which is why the USA is a Republic with the electoral college. It means smaller states and minorities have a say. It allows for a much fairer vote and a non authoritarian rule by the majority. True democracy just leads to authoritarian control, which is bad. Hitler, a famous fascist and authoritarian used the excuse of democracy to justify the actions his country took. Thats why America isn’t a democracy and cannot be judged as one.
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Edited by Cozyman Cam: 10/13/2018 6:16:51 PMAccording to Politico (https://www.politico.com/mapdata-2016/2016-election/results/map/president/), Clinton had 62,523,126 votes nationally and Trump had 61,201,031 votes nationally in the 2016 general election. Clinton led the national popular vote by 1,322,095 votes. Now let us look at the popular vote in California, Clinton had 5,589,963 votes and Trump had 3,021,095 votes. Clinton led the California popular vote by 2,568,868 votes. Clinton's lead in California was 1,246,773 greater than her lead nationally. A pure democracy would only increase the bias toward the, already favored, interests of urban folk more so. It's already very inconvenient to be required to abide by legislation written in the urban context while utterly neglecting the rural context. We do not need anymore of it. We, rural folk, would eventually be reduced to a new servant class beckoning to the every whim of our urban masters. For now, I prefer our democratic republic because it softens the favor toward the interests of those living in densly populated areas. Really, both the Republican Party and the Democrat Party are guilty of placing their own interests above the interests of those they claim to represent. My only solution would be to impose consecutive term limits for both congress and the President. I would imagine the constitutional amendment would be similar to the effect of[spoiler]Amendment XXVIII 1. No person shall be elected to the office of representative more than thrice consecutively. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of representative, when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of representative, or acting as representative, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of representative or acting as representative during the remainder of such term. 2. No person shall be elected to the office of senator more than twice consecutively, and no person who has held the office of senator, or acted as senator, for more than three years of a term to which some other person was elected senator shall be elected to the office of senator more than once consecutively. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of senator, when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of senator, or acting as senator, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of senator or acting as senator during the remainder of such term. 3. The twenty-second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed. 4. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice consecutively, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once consecutively. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President, when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term. 5. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.[/spoiler]
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Replying to your edit; You can’t criticize a democracy, and when told that it isn’t actually a democracy say that it misses the point. Your point was that it’s not a functional democracy, and you’re right! It wasn’t meant to be a democracy. Our government is running as intended; the goal of the founding fathers was to ensure equal representation, thus the electoral college was born. This way, the major cities like Hollywood and New York that have populations bigger than states can’t overrule the people of the smaller/less populated states
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My favorite part is how we expect change to happen through a gaming forum. Everyone knows gamers are a oppressed minority.
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Edited by dogsheet_player: 10/13/2018 7:00:13 PMIt isn't a democracy. Be glad it isn't. It is a democratic republic. Everyone knows that Democrat is the nice way to say socialist and socialist evolves into communist at 36
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Back in 1787, the less populous colonies were worried about not having a voice in the new government. It was decided that the Senate would give each state equal representation, while the House would go by population. California and Wyoming each have two senators, but California has something like 50 representatives while Wyoming has only one. The electoral college is a combination of house and senate... effectively, the vote of a Wyoming or North Dakota resident has nearly three times the elective power of a Californian vote. Because all states get two senatorial votes. The last 230 years have greatly homogenized our country, makjng it seem unnecessary to give some states more influence than others. But, to change it, we have to change the Constitution. We've only done that 27 times in all those years, and the first 10 came all at once in 1789 (the Bill of Rights). So, in the 229 years since, only 17 amendments passed. Pretty big stuff mostly: ending slavery, granting minorities the vote, banning alcohol, permitting it again, letting women vote, and setting presidential term limits. This would be a similarly big deal.
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It never was a democracy. It is, and always has been, a constitutional representative republic.
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America isn’t a democracy. It’s a democratic republic.
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Damn dude, it's been a minute since I've seen you around. Welcome back! But the US is not a democracy, it's technically a representative republic
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Republic > pure democracy The “majority” mostly reside in densely populated echo chambers called major cities. And when I say majority, that means perhaps an amount that’s [u]barely[/u] a majority. Quit your bitching.
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It’s not a Democracy our country was set up to avoid tyranny of the majority. Welcome back by the way.
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It’s a democratic republic
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Am I still on your list, and what number?
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The US typically has one of the lowest voter turnouts when it comes to elections. The majority of people who are registered to vote typically do not go out to vote when the time comes (with the exception of presidential elections, and even then, voter turnout rates are abysmal). The minority gets to voice their opinion because the majority who are able to vote decide to stay back at home, thumbs up their bootyholes, and complain about the minority. This year, Uber and Lyft are giving free rides to people on November 6, so people can go out and vote. Mail-in ballots are underutilized. This year, there are so many ways people can go out to vote, so there really isn't a legitimate reason for someone to complain about their voice not being heard unless they aren't eligible to vote. The town I live in is around 100,000+ now, and based off of the voting data in previous years, voter turnout rate here is usually around 20-30%. This only takes into account people who are eligible to vote, so people who are undocumented, not registered to vote, dead, or under the age of 18 don't count. Even with those factors, the voter turnout here is abysmally low. The majority of Americans don't care about who runs their government. They only love to complain and not do anything to contribute or shape the government. I want to emphasize again that the average American, the majority of Americans, who are able to vote, but do not go out to vote (or mail in) are just as much of the problem that they love to complain about. They are sitting with thumbs up their bootyholes at home and complaining rather than actually doing something about it. I don't understand why people choose to register to vote, but they don't go out and use that power that is given to them. They must love jury duty, I guess.
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Cause we said so
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Sigh....America is not a democracy. Also if it wasn’t for the electoral college, only 4 states would have any say. The other 46 states and our handful of territories would be completely ignored.
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I remember a book from a quite famous American expert in politics, stating that the United States are in fact an oligarchy.
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Edited by Partisan: 10/12/2018 11:39:46 PMCommitted to keeping this thread alive for the sole reason that it cites The Economist
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You're back. Is it really you though?
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You can always go to North Korea. See ya
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I miss the OG CrazyLincoln.
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When did you come back
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one, we are not a democracy, and two. It is totally about voter turn out. The electoral college is a good thing
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I know you’re good people. I know you mean well. But you just didn’t think it through. There is only one path to peace... your extinction.
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I'm not gonna lie: political systems has always difficult for me to understand. Yet what I do know? This country barely functions. The only way it truly keeps going is because we're addicted to our way of life: consumerism. Wouldn't surprise me if the corporations just come right out and buy America.