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Edited by Spawn:
10/10/2018 6:49:19 PM
209
Bringing Sniping Back in Destiny 2! (To: Sandbox Team)
Sandbox Team.
With the next few updates I think a large portion of the community would be really happy to see some positive changes for snipers in the crucible.
In today's meta, the strength, range, ammo advantages, and overall usability of shotguns make them a clear choice as the superior weapon. Many of us want to branch out and use snipers but with how they work in the game today... it's just not realistic.
- [b]Flinch[/b]
I think anyone who has attempted to snipe in the past few weeks will tell you that the flinch on snipers in unreasonably bad. The maps are already small but even when you are far enough away and well within "sniper" range, a handcannon shot from across the map can still send your reticle into the sky. I think most of us don't mind how powerful pulses are in the current meta but a sniper should be the better choice at longe ranges... and right now it's clearly not.
Also, horizontal flinch is probably one of the most frustrating game mechanics and makes all snipers feel very flimsy.
- [b]Handling[/b]
If you put Destiny 1 back into your console and pull out a sniper, you'll immediately notice that holding one feels much different. It doesn't have the sluggish feeling that most snipers in Destiny 2 (Note: on console)
- [b]Scopes[/b]
Small maps in Destiny 2 is fun. It keeps the gameplay exciting knowing there are always enemies right around the corner. The fact that snipers are long scoped, high zoomed weapons makes them really tough to use in most situations. Most lanes are not more than a few hundred feet, so using a long range scope on these maps is about as useful as trying to use a telescope to read a book. It's just unnecessary and does more harm than good.
- [b]Aim Assist / Hitbox Size[/b]
I truly believe that you can fix snipers even if you only touch ONE of these two things. If you want to argue that snipers shouldn't have aim assist and everyone should just [i]get good[/i] that's fine but then we need to increase the size of the hitbox. Just play a game with a sniper or watch someone else do it. The amount of times that you will get a body shot that you thought was a headshot is far too often. Watching the clips back in slow motion, I really think the hitbox is just too small. That combined with the flinch means that you will lose most 1v1's where the other player is looking your general direction.
- [b]Damage[/b]
Imagine you hear a super pop, you are aware of their location, manage to escape, gain some distance, turn around and make an incredible play to headshot them. To your dismay, sniping a sentinel / hammer / nova warp in the head only for them to notice you and then proceed to wipe the floor with you using their super is frankly just defeating. You did everything right, you made the right decisions, the skilled play, and still lost. Sniper headshots should kill supers. Enough said.
In conclusion, there is currently not a single situation in the game today where a sniper is the better choice for the everyday player. Up close you will lose to shotguns, sidearms, fusions, etc. At range you will lose to pulses, scouts, and even handcannons. Note: Just because you can get kills with a sniper doesn't mean that it's the better option. Just look at the use rates for snipers. Almost non-existent.
I hope you take this as genuine feedback from a long time supporter who loves the game. You've made a lot of strides in the past year and the snipers in the community are ready to make those legendary plays. We don't want easy mode, we want a chance... to make the legendary plays that made us fall in love with the game back in Destiny 1.
Please upvote this and hopefully @dmg is reading this and will pass it along to the sandbox team.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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Flinch is fine. I’m tired of seeing people complain about it. If anything it needs to be increased. I’ve nailed people left and right in the head nonstop and they can still snipe. This means more flinch. If I’m sniping and I see it flinch, it’s time to switch weapons and move from that spot.
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7 RepliesEdited by Cal: 10/10/2018 4:34:25 PMthe one thing that would make me stop playing crucible is if we get another sniper meta. It was the most boring frustrating experience in destiny. I rather team shoot with gravitons then HAVE to arm a sniper and camp lanes like in d1. no thanks. Snipers are fine. Edit, didn;t see who OP was, love your videos. But i still disagree.
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No, you want to bring back the special weapon meta.
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Somerhing is bad if you have a sniper and a pulse beat you at range because of the flinch I agree with this, we dont need the same snipe meta like D1 BUT We need snipers to be viable.
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4 RepliesI see it never stops. The cry hards kept going and going till they got the snipers off heavy and they still ain't happy. Take out weapon sway. Remove recoil. Add aim assist. Make it so the hit box encompasses the critical in a 2 foot diameter so we can't miss. Here you missed this one. How about an auto fire system. So when you drag scope it automatically fires when on crit mark.
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2 comments. - Flinch needs to stay where it is in pvp. Anything less and here is a sniper meta again. If you get popped in the noggin [u]by any weapon[/u] it means they got a bead on you. It Doesn't mean that you push through incoming fire to get headshots off. I've seem a lot more sniping now thennbefire Forsaken and it's a healthy balance. If I get taken out it's generally my fault. If I survive and I can get a dome or 2 in it should be my advantage. - You should [u]not[/u] be able to 1 shot a Full health super. Stop the nonsense. Bungie was already through that I'm D1 and they specifically changed things so you couldn't except with the most powerful sniper. In D2 case now that should only be high impact snipers in the Power slot. They are supers and when they could be sniped by any sniper they didn't feel super. The space magic has to be considered in this game along side the gunplay.
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Geekermon, I completely agree, i would be very happy if they implemented these changes
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Only thing snipers really need is a bit of flinch reduction (not too much, I don't need PTSD flashbacks of shooting snipers with a MIDA only to die anyway). Other then that I don't really see any problems with em. Oh, and they need to one shot supers. Kind of annoying hitting a hammers with a 180 only for him to take it and obliterate me.
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all i need is my last word and god roll longbow.
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Sniping in destiny 1 was super fun. I miss it
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As a aggressive sniper main since day 1 D1 the only real problem thing I can see that might need tweaking are maybe more scope option on different snipers and maybe flinch just a little. I run the enhanced sniper flinch and the flinch is still pretty bad. Maybe picking up ammo from a distance but that's pretty much it
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It’s called fracking now
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Don't touch the hitbox or aim assist. Been doing fine sniping for months now. Its alreay pretty forgiving to snipe, the only issue is the flinch but if you are getting shot at it should be difficult to snipe. I don't want a sniper meta to comeback to Destiny. It was the most boring meta in existance in D1.
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Would upvote but it’s at 117
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Edited by TotalDramaGamer: 10/10/2018 9:16:29 PM[quote]Bringing Sniping Viable Maps in Destiny 2![/quote] Fixed it for ya. If you play on the reskinned D1 maps you'll find snipers to be way more plentiful. It's just that... you know... every other map is simply too small for sniping. You're way too likely to be in someone's face too often even if you try to play passive, especially in Comp. Shotguns are the best simply because almost every maps promotes that style of play. It's the exact same reason SMGs were a must have because they were 'like' shotguns in the sense they were a dominate close range weapon that could quickly kill 1-2 people based on how well you played the tight space. Until they add larger maps, or at least maps without a crap ton of hallways (whatever happened to D1 Earth maps where the only hallways were fairly rare and cornered to one or two buildings?) the shotguns will always just have more to use.
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I enjoyed watching your YouTube video in which you were running around with the Worldline Zero.
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It’s called sleeping now bro
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Flinch is ok, snipers are intended to be use in "stealth mode" from long distances, the snipers users should fire first before the enemy is aware of his/her location, and if you miss the shoot you have to relocate yourself and gain again the "stealth mode" Scopes are ok, do not use long range scopes, grind for snipers with short zoom scopes and the problem is solve. Hit boxes and aim assist are ok, you have to be skillful to kill with snipers if you are not good enought snipers are not for you. If you increase hit boxes, increase aim assist, increase damage and reduce flinch anyone could use snipers and snipers will be the dominant weapons because you can one shoot anything at any distance and without playing in "stealth mode".
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[i][quote]Bringing Sniping Back in Destiny 2![/quote][/i] It's already been back in some of the lobbies I play. The Dreaming City sniper is a real pain :-)
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It's not that they are underwhelming. Just no one uses them. Everyone is lazy and most just want to ape with shotguns. If you play smart and anchor yourself you'll outplay majority of them with a sniper.
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There are sniper rifles with short scopes on them, you and most snipers don't use them because they don't one-shot. Sniper rifles shouldn't win close combat matches especially against a shotgun or hand Cannon but those same weapons shouldn't win a long-range fight with a sniper rifle so I agree I should not be getting killed by a hand Cannon user while I'm using a sniper rifle at long range I'll give you that one. So pretty much I'm saying you want to use a sniper rifle in small Crucible Maps then use one of the sniper rifles that have the short scope but aren't that's powerful otherwise put on the armor that has the abilities on it that help with flinching for sniper rifles. That just means you have to grind to get that good roll. And it does help.
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Do we have to? What's so great about having crucible dominated by 1 shot kills anyway?
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1 ReplyEdited by crumblyburgers: 10/10/2018 6:40:07 PMI sniped for the first real time a few days ago. And slaughtered. Honestly I don't think anything needs to change. The biggest issue is most maps are not built around sniping. Also, to your point on supers: you can headshot a hammer Titan. I did.
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Edited by slayer britt: 10/10/2018 7:07:21 PMFlinch, handling, and scopes aren't issues- you just have to adapt to those. With forsaken, I've switched to using an even lower handling sniper, the gambit one. The rolls matter a lot, including the scope. Lower zoom scopes tend to have higher handling anyway. Flinch, you just have to get better at countering, plus there are perks and mods that help with it. As for aim assist/hitbox- git gud. I've been maining snipers since D1Y1, there's never really been a need to make sniping easier in this regard. It takes practice- use the same gun, same roll. It will function the same way every time and you'll get used to using it- you'll never have an issue with feeling like that shot should have hit once you get used to it. There are plenty of perks and mods to help if you don't feel the gun performs as consistently as you'd like. First, find a base gun you like, then look for perks to help. Typically higher RoF frames have higher handling. Increased range typically includes more aim assist to help keep your aim more consistent at long range. Firmly Planted is one of my favorite sniper perks currently, but you have to adapt to it. Crouching isn't typically a part of your playstyle, but I've been pairing it with knucklehead radar- helps increase my awareness and lets me use my sniper more often. Plus, when crouched, the radar is better, which encourages me to use crouch more. I've found it makes my sniping more consistent since incorporating it into my playstyle- Firmly Planted is actually a really solid perk. There's also handling/range masterworks I believe, as well as mods (including one for increased aim assist). Find the combination that works for you, and practice with it. As for damage- I completely agree. It needs to be increased. I'm not looking for a one-hit body, but I should be able to kill a super with a headshot. Shotguns seem to shut down supers all the time, but snipers rarely do. Not even the highest impact (not including heavies) can kill supers in one shot. In D1, it was easier to hit supers and still killed them- it's more difficult now to hit them, but far less rewarding. The damage should be increased to allow shotguns to not be only viable counter. One thing you didn't mention was the ammo economy- it really heavily favors shotguns and fusions over snipers. If shoot-to-loot returned, it might be more viable, but I doubt it would. As is, snipers generally lose the ammo from an enemy they kill due to the distance they'll have to cover to get that ammo- someone else will pick it up first or you'll have to battle someone in close quarters for it, typically a shotgunner. And then, you get a single shot. If you miss, the sniper is pointless. Hit a body? Guess you're out of luck unless you're using another mid/long range weapon, but you're screwed up close. The only way a sniper can have a viable ammo situation is to use the scavenger perk so you get extra ammo when you CAN pick it up. Otherwise the sniper just feels incredibly situational, whereas shotties and fusions always feel like they are an option since getting a kill almost guarantees ammo for another kill. All in all, the only things I'd change are to improve damage and ammo economy changes. Shotguns might need some changes, but I think the biggest issue is just in the map designs favoring shotguns. I think some favoritism towards snipers would go a ways towards evening the playing field. Damage and ammo probably would do the most overall IMO. Anything else might make them too strong. Edit: Holy wall of text, batman!
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I'm personally not bothered by flinch much but I feel like the flinch should be more controllable. It's stupid how your reticle moves, but your scope doesn't. As for the aim assist...as a skill based weapon and a very avid user of snipers, I would say it's perfectly fine the way it is. As for damage...i don't want supers getting one shot by special weapons. A super should be something hard to put down and require more than a pull to the trigger to beat. Once you get the animations for their movement down, sniping pretty easy. Definitely increase the bodyshot damage though. Make the faster firing snipers 2-tap normal guardians in the body again. 3 shots when you never usually have that much is stupid. As for the hitbox...thats just bungies crappy character hit boxes. A lot of shots to the back of the head will register as body shots. As a person who sniped even when they were power weapons, the only real thing they need is a bit more control. Flinch makes said control stupid, especially when pulses 3 burst you down before the reticle even fully resets.
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I wish the maps were a bit bigger. A lot of the time I spawn in sight of enemies or I'm already getting shot at / super'd
