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Edited by Spawn:
10/10/2018 6:49:19 PM
209
Bringing Sniping Back in Destiny 2! (To: Sandbox Team)
Sandbox Team.
With the next few updates I think a large portion of the community would be really happy to see some positive changes for snipers in the crucible.
In today's meta, the strength, range, ammo advantages, and overall usability of shotguns make them a clear choice as the superior weapon. Many of us want to branch out and use snipers but with how they work in the game today... it's just not realistic.
- [b]Flinch[/b]
I think anyone who has attempted to snipe in the past few weeks will tell you that the flinch on snipers in unreasonably bad. The maps are already small but even when you are far enough away and well within "sniper" range, a handcannon shot from across the map can still send your reticle into the sky. I think most of us don't mind how powerful pulses are in the current meta but a sniper should be the better choice at longe ranges... and right now it's clearly not.
Also, horizontal flinch is probably one of the most frustrating game mechanics and makes all snipers feel very flimsy.
- [b]Handling[/b]
If you put Destiny 1 back into your console and pull out a sniper, you'll immediately notice that holding one feels much different. It doesn't have the sluggish feeling that most snipers in Destiny 2 (Note: on console)
- [b]Scopes[/b]
Small maps in Destiny 2 is fun. It keeps the gameplay exciting knowing there are always enemies right around the corner. The fact that snipers are long scoped, high zoomed weapons makes them really tough to use in most situations. Most lanes are not more than a few hundred feet, so using a long range scope on these maps is about as useful as trying to use a telescope to read a book. It's just unnecessary and does more harm than good.
- [b]Aim Assist / Hitbox Size[/b]
I truly believe that you can fix snipers even if you only touch ONE of these two things. If you want to argue that snipers shouldn't have aim assist and everyone should just [i]get good[/i] that's fine but then we need to increase the size of the hitbox. Just play a game with a sniper or watch someone else do it. The amount of times that you will get a body shot that you thought was a headshot is far too often. Watching the clips back in slow motion, I really think the hitbox is just too small. That combined with the flinch means that you will lose most 1v1's where the other player is looking your general direction.
- [b]Damage[/b]
Imagine you hear a super pop, you are aware of their location, manage to escape, gain some distance, turn around and make an incredible play to headshot them. To your dismay, sniping a sentinel / hammer / nova warp in the head only for them to notice you and then proceed to wipe the floor with you using their super is frankly just defeating. You did everything right, you made the right decisions, the skilled play, and still lost. Sniper headshots should kill supers. Enough said.
In conclusion, there is currently not a single situation in the game today where a sniper is the better choice for the everyday player. Up close you will lose to shotguns, sidearms, fusions, etc. At range you will lose to pulses, scouts, and even handcannons. Note: Just because you can get kills with a sniper doesn't mean that it's the better option. Just look at the use rates for snipers. Almost non-existent.
I hope you take this as genuine feedback from a long time supporter who loves the game. You've made a lot of strides in the past year and the snipers in the community are ready to make those legendary plays. We don't want easy mode, we want a chance... to make the legendary plays that made us fall in love with the game back in Destiny 1.
Please upvote this and hopefully @dmg is reading this and will pass it along to the sandbox team.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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4 RepliesImo snipers are in the best place they've ever been. I'd maybe give them an extra shot as default but that's it
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Please dont make me play destiny 1 PVP I hate PVP as it is this will make it worse Just dont add aim assist thats all I ask.
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I pretty much only snipe on PS4 and XB1, and while I still find success, I do agree with some of the points here. Mostly the high impacts ones not downing supers in one shot, when slug shotties can down supers with a headshot in most situations (not just the Chaperone, but even Gunnora's Axe can do it). I think snipers need the same treatment. A sliiiiiiight reduction in flinch would be good, but not too much. I play fast and aggressive with my sniper rifle so I don't really mind that there aren't a ton of sniper lanes people can hardscope in but I do wish the scopes were in a better place. And the scopes need to be zoomed out a bit. Also, since shotties can run over their kills to keep getting special ammo, some perks like shoot to loot or other ways to get special seems like it could be helpful. But thats kind of a slippery slope so that's not a huge issue for me tbh. I find ammo just fine as it is.
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The only thing I’d argue for is better handling and for some snipers (alone as a god) that lack range stat to have a slightly increased stickiness (like 10-15%) if they tune them to much they’re just going to turn into shotguns and be used by kids who lack skill and they’ll just have the aim assist take the kill.
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13 RepliesEdited by Lizard King: 10/11/2018 10:56:26 AMRemoving flinch from snipers is a terrible idea. Clearly you forget most boring Destiny 1 Crucible meta was when Snipers were dominant with no flinch at all.
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Great words geek, thanks for speaking for the community. I agree with what you said, and so does bungie confirmed.
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I agree, flinch is abit too much. Also other problem is ammo, there isnt enough of it lol. There is better options out there so i tend to use them instead. Just use snipers rarely and mainly because they exist.
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You're right, just a nudge might make snipers more competitive. Ammo - i think this is the golden ticket here. I think giving 1-2 extra shots on re-spawn or 1-2 extra rounds on ammo pickup may help. The logical choice would be to go back to green boxes - but I think the method we have right now is put in place for future exotic releases. Icebreaker wouldn't have been a problem if everyone else re-spawned with ammo. No Land Beyond wouldn't have become an alternative if everyone re-spawned with ammo. Invective, that one primary shotgun that had a meta. all the same underlying reasons. Those guns became meta at certain points because of ammo restrictions on other guns. Aim assist and scopes - i think this is in a good space right now. You have to shop around for a sniper that has both good accuracy and short scope. Also, to people thinking about this topic - a lot of the hitbox mechanics are based on frames and where your shot goes in relation to the frames. Headshots against opponents in air seem to land better because their head is moving vertically between frames. Flick shots because of your horizontal motion. (at least that's how i comprehend it) red lights on lanes - i personally never had a problem with the camping sniper. I know where he is, i know where to flank him. We're in a spot right now that two guys with bows will ruin a lane more than 2 guys with snipers. Unless your opponent is really good at sniping, your odds on getting shot are low if you keep yourself weaving. If he's good, but camps - you know his position and can avoid or flank. Not to make it a shotgun vs sniper arguement, but a good shotgunner can be everywhere depending on where you respawn or he respawns. A sniper has less options to be everywhere unless he's mastered quickscoping - and even so, he deserves that win. in quickplay, sometimes a shotgun flank just feels like RNG because of the chaos of the situation. Sure you can back-pedal, but you can't back pedal as fast as they can sprint forward. There was a time in D1 where snipers were the choice of competitive players and shotguns were entry level. Right now shotguns occupy both spaces because the risk/reward structure of snipers aren't balanced correctly.
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4 Replies1. Bring back the last word (probably happening) 2. Reduce flinch 30% (any more and sniping with enhanced unflinching would be way too easy) 3. Remove scope sway 4. Give us snipers with the old scopes, shortgaze, ambush etc. 5. Increase handling to the point where snapshot is a bonus not a necessity 6. Increase body damage on low impact snipers, having to three shot to the body is ridiculous, some hand cannons can just about do the same thing.
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The ammo is the only issue.
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I mostly agree, there's only a few snipers you can pseudo reliably use in crucible. A god roll Supremacy or Silicon Neuroma in my case. In the case of the latter (A HIGH IMPACT SNIPER WITH ONLY 3 ROUNDS PER MAG) headshotting a super only does 160 damage, and with all the drawbacks that the archetype has in addition to being a sniper there's no real reason for me to use it even though I love sniping. I'm now using just the supremacy when I snipe, Headshots on supers land for 121, which means I'm better off using this because of it's higher aim assist, mag size and base handling. I like the look of the supremacy, but I also like my Silicon neuroma, I like sniping, but I also like winning, so I typically don't unless I get a map like Vostok or Midtown. I really want sniping to be good again, and there's not too much that needs to be done for me to snipe a lot more. 1. Archetype balancing, other than bodyshot damage theres no reason for me to use a Silicon neuroma over twilight oath or supremacy. The latter weapons have higher aim assist and better follow up shots. 2. Making sniper rolls relevant, Why are hip fire and range finder perks on snipers? This is fine, but there needs to be some sort of adjustment to the perks like what was done to range finder on grenade launchers and rocket launchers. 3. Give people a reason to snipe outside of just liking the idea of sniping, maybe a questline for a pinnacle reward in a future update or season. Get people used to the idea of sniping, maybe some will find they like it.
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1 ReplyHave to agree on your point about the scopes, most areas in Destiny (PVE / PVP) are way too small to make a long zoom or even medium zoom useful on snipers.
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3 Repliesyeah i would like to see more snipers and all snipers have a choice of scopes and mag instead of 1 or the other and then more ammo in pvp i understand why you have 2 ammo per spawn for shotties but cmon snipers they need more love
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1 Replyyeah I'd rather not go back to the crucible where snipers dominated but I would like them to be a little more viable. flinch is still a little much. the few times I've used them in forsaken I see the flinch and immediately switch to something else.
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I use a Sniper 24/7 and never put it down. Have over 50k kills in D1-D2 with a sniper. - Disagree with Aim Assist and hitbox - Flinch is fine, but could use a slight nerf - RNG bullets when not aimed in is BAD. Snipers need to go where i aim just like shotgun do out of scope. If i jump and put the reticle on your head... it needs to kill you. - There needs to be an out of scope reticle on my screen to indicate where the bullet is going, and should have literally zero AA involved. I agree with Handling and Damage. Snipers except High RoF should kills supers with a headshot. Body shots need to deal more damage on Adaptive and High RoF ones
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Edited by MindfulPizza: 10/11/2018 1:41:48 PMdude snipers still one shot . when get box breathing roll . snipers are evil still in pvp . just at time little slower moving there evil as hell , they need buff scout back to destiny 1 though. and now get equip 2 snipers at once and i thing there a power one also , hidden . wtf
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[quote][i]Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.[/i] ~Jake Skywalker, a long time ago.[/quote]
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Please no. That was a boring camp meta
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Edited by lvl.99_Warlock: 10/11/2018 12:31:19 PMI mostly agree. I had a lot of fun with my own style of sniping back in D1. Quick firing high stability two taps. Efrideet's spear was good for this. I don't mind dealing with the ape style, just let there be a variety of counters available. I'm honestly ok with the flinch as it is, having used a sniper a few times. I know this is a video game but you shouldn't be able to long scope "point and click" while taking bullets without anti-flinch perks. Sniping should be about positioning, stealth and surprise. The red glare should be seen but less conspicuous. I think that will balance the flinch debate. If I catch you and shoot you, you should flinch (without the right armor perk). However, the game shouldn't make it so easy to see a sniper. In PvP. Now, in PvE non-exotic sniping is dookie. nuf said.
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Just saying being able to sit back in pve with a sniper rifle would be nice as well, there arent many strikes or any area's where i can effectively use a sniper rifle the way i intend to in other words im the guy who used to sit bac on top of the ridge with icebreaker on winters run... until you put katches there
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15 RepliesSpot on. All these kids that can't let go of their shotgun crutch don't want another weapon as strong as shotguns in the game. If they can't skill-less ape around lines of sight they won't have any fun. Facts are facts. Snipers are under powered in many ways and need a buff.
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1 ReplyI agree on all of this, sadly I can't snipe for shit
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Strange behavior that Imo gives a bad experiance too - when I am trying to scope in, then nothing happens for a while after the click, and only after some time scope is going in. I think it should start to scoping in immedeatly and smooth without this confusing delay.
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Agree
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1 ReplyI was trying to explain exactly same thing through the handling issues of whisper of the worm on this post. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/249104326?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1 So, i couldn't agree more. Sign me up!
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4 Repliesno flinch please... i only get kills with people not shooting me.
