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Edited by Spawn:
10/10/2018 6:49:19 PM
209
Bringing Sniping Back in Destiny 2! (To: Sandbox Team)
Sandbox Team.
With the next few updates I think a large portion of the community would be really happy to see some positive changes for snipers in the crucible.
In today's meta, the strength, range, ammo advantages, and overall usability of shotguns make them a clear choice as the superior weapon. Many of us want to branch out and use snipers but with how they work in the game today... it's just not realistic.
- [b]Flinch[/b]
I think anyone who has attempted to snipe in the past few weeks will tell you that the flinch on snipers in unreasonably bad. The maps are already small but even when you are far enough away and well within "sniper" range, a handcannon shot from across the map can still send your reticle into the sky. I think most of us don't mind how powerful pulses are in the current meta but a sniper should be the better choice at longe ranges... and right now it's clearly not.
Also, horizontal flinch is probably one of the most frustrating game mechanics and makes all snipers feel very flimsy.
- [b]Handling[/b]
If you put Destiny 1 back into your console and pull out a sniper, you'll immediately notice that holding one feels much different. It doesn't have the sluggish feeling that most snipers in Destiny 2 (Note: on console)
- [b]Scopes[/b]
Small maps in Destiny 2 is fun. It keeps the gameplay exciting knowing there are always enemies right around the corner. The fact that snipers are long scoped, high zoomed weapons makes them really tough to use in most situations. Most lanes are not more than a few hundred feet, so using a long range scope on these maps is about as useful as trying to use a telescope to read a book. It's just unnecessary and does more harm than good.
- [b]Aim Assist / Hitbox Size[/b]
I truly believe that you can fix snipers even if you only touch ONE of these two things. If you want to argue that snipers shouldn't have aim assist and everyone should just [i]get good[/i] that's fine but then we need to increase the size of the hitbox. Just play a game with a sniper or watch someone else do it. The amount of times that you will get a body shot that you thought was a headshot is far too often. Watching the clips back in slow motion, I really think the hitbox is just too small. That combined with the flinch means that you will lose most 1v1's where the other player is looking your general direction.
- [b]Damage[/b]
Imagine you hear a super pop, you are aware of their location, manage to escape, gain some distance, turn around and make an incredible play to headshot them. To your dismay, sniping a sentinel / hammer / nova warp in the head only for them to notice you and then proceed to wipe the floor with you using their super is frankly just defeating. You did everything right, you made the right decisions, the skilled play, and still lost. Sniper headshots should kill supers. Enough said.
In conclusion, there is currently not a single situation in the game today where a sniper is the better choice for the everyday player. Up close you will lose to shotguns, sidearms, fusions, etc. At range you will lose to pulses, scouts, and even handcannons. Note: Just because you can get kills with a sniper doesn't mean that it's the better option. Just look at the use rates for snipers. Almost non-existent.
I hope you take this as genuine feedback from a long time supporter who loves the game. You've made a lot of strides in the past year and the snipers in the community are ready to make those legendary plays. We don't want easy mode, we want a chance... to make the legendary plays that made us fall in love with the game back in Destiny 1.
Please upvote this and hopefully @dmg is reading this and will pass it along to the sandbox team.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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I largely agree with what was said here, flinch should be reduced and made vertical, sniper aim assist should be increased or hit boxes should be bigger, or both but each being improved by a lesser amount. Scopes... yes, frankly long zoom scopes in Crucible are just about useless. Medium could be viable, but I personally stick to short, though I would just have this as a recommendation to be kept in mind with any new snipers added to the game, just to make sure they all have long, medium, and short zooms.. Unless bigger maps with more open spaces come into play, but even then it'd be nice to be able to have long, medium, and short zoom options on all snipers. I suppose the only real disagreement I have with what was said would be in the "[b]Damage[/b]" section, being able to one-shot a super. I very much believe that a Guardian in super should be something that makes you turn around and run. As a side note, I would personally love it if a new game mode was added which involved bigger maps, even if they were just the existing modes but bigger. However, I would by no means class this as a priority.
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SO when is this happening? Even as power weapons they felt heavily under-powered. Guess they're never gonna do anything to them?
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Pick up a thousand yard in D1. It feels like a weapon made for a legend, an extension of the soul. When you take aim it does not resist you, it follows your guidance. It is not the end all be all, but it has its place. Pick up a sniper in D2. It feels like a sniper made for a different platform. you take aim, it responds as a child, It listens to your words, but squirms under you guidance. you lock eyes with your prey, pull the trigger. Instead of the yellow numbers you craving, and knew in your heart of hearts that you deserve. You are greeted with white, white for the pure defeat you feel.
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2 RepliesSnipers are right where they need to be. I’m not a sniper in this game. Wasn’t in D1 either. Last season was the first time I actually tried when sniping because I wanted the ornament. Took me about a week to get all 100 kills. That was when all snipers were in the heavy slot. At times it seemed like easy mode. If I as an average player with no destiny sniping skills can do that then it doesn’t need to change. It’s not shotguns that’s the problem. It’s the maps forcing close quarter combat.
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100% agree geek! Bring back snipers! Make snipers viable again! Choosing a sniper should not mean choosing a handicap!
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Topic body
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1 ReplyAfter a sniper kill you are forced to rush to pick ammo,so you get in close quarter with shotgun users...why not add perks like “Bonus Performance” ? Or a few new perks just for sniper rifles??
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1 ReplyIf you like shortgaze try luna nullis.
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Not only should sniping be changed for the better in those aspects it also should completely mirror the taken king ammo economy for snipers which was waaay more generous by giving to all players who wanted the ammo from the box but in this case it could be boxes. Also... gimme my dang self Rez back you can’t just replace apart of our universe like that it wasn’t even as bad as the AC-130 titan problem or the slide shotgun fist of panic juggernaut shoulder charge stormfist overload titan problem like come on....jeez
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I haven't played the D1, so I can't compare how it was, or even relate to it. But as a sniper "main" in D2, since the new snadbox, I can relate a bit to the post. I agree with "we don't want easy mode", so the flinch could be tweaked a bit, make it more vertical, not horizontal + make it smaller. Hotboxes are ok, atleast for pc, although way "smaller" compared to HC, if you shoot someone to d*ck with HC that often counts as a headshot. I feel like the snipes shouldn't be primaries, but rather secondaries, as I like to use them, for longer ranges, but little tweaks could be good and shift the meta for atleast 2 choices: shotty with longer range weapon or snipe with shorter range weapon
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1 ReplyPreface: I [i]rarely[/i] snipe, and never in the Crucible. It's entertaining, but not fitting for what I usually like to do. My opinion on Snipers, notably in the Crucible: 1) [u]Ammo economy[/u] This is in my opinion, their worst disadvantage. Whereas those who use basically anything else will be near dropped ammo, snipers have to brave the shotguns for a chance to pick up a brick. I've pondered fixes, but the most I've come up with is an altering of starting and pickup counts for each special to reflect the general distance at which a kill (and subsequent ammo brick) will be. 2) [u]Scopes[/u] I'm with you on this. There need to be more (any...) legit short/mid range scopes, especially given average map size. This is one reason I don't use snipers in general. I don't feel the need to inspect my opponents' nose hairs before shooting them. Gimme an ACOG-like deal, or even a dot sight or irons. 3) [u]Flinch and Handling[/u] Given the nature of the weapon, these I feel aren't too out of place. Flinch is compounded with snipers due to the zoom level on all their optics. Having low zoom options might mitigate this. Handling is something that shouldn't really be touched. It brings Handling and Snapshot perks to prominence instead of being a generally ignored stat. This opinion is based on my personal opinion that "quickscoping" and "aggressive sniping" are a bit hokey. It's a long range weapon. If one wants to be aggressive, there are shotguns, fusions, and even grenade launchers.
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2 RepliesNo kidding! I am not a sniper by any means but with the new TTK, trying to lock onto a guardian's head in crucible while they are peak shooting you with bygones is hilarious. Your reticle might as well be a bouncy ball and you die before you can ever line up your shot in a lot of instances. Fix flinch man.
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3 RepliesIn my opinion, the flinch for snipers need to stay the way it is. If snipers had reduced flinch then they would be the most used and annoying weapon in the crucible, it’s a one shot at any distance, it needs to have something to hinder it and make you choose smart engagements, not just carelessly go in and get the immediate headshot. Also getting a kill currently with a snipe feels so much more rewarding because of the amount of flinch there is. Another thing, hit box for snipers are fine the way they are right now, and handling for the snipers are fine the way they are now, if you want better handling get perks that help with that. And supers should not be able to get 1 shot head shot because on PC, there are those people that don’t miss a shot, and the ability is literally called a “super” what’s so super about it when 1 shot is all it takes. All I’m saying is that snipers should be more about choosing good engagements, being far back and stealthy, and should take skill and precision
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Thank you for this post brother. Very well articulated and thought out. Such a pleasure to see in these forums too.
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1 ReplyEdited by Arthur: 10/12/2018 12:20:58 PMDisagree, as mentioned in the last few comments, snipers are fine. I wouldn't be against a little more ammo given ranged killing makes it more difficult to pick up what an opponent drops but heard ice breaker is back soon anyway. Wouldn't be against increasing handling a bit either on certain scopes. Snipers should take huge flinch when being shot, it should be next to impossible to dome someone while being shot - shoot first hit head you win, if they shoot first and initiate flinch they should have every advantage. One hit killing through being shot has no disadvantage. Shotguns require the risk of close quarters - grenades, melees, team fire, shut down supers etc. If it becomes easy to one hit through primary fire from range like it was in D1 there will be no point using anything else. Hence why they increased sniper flinch in D1.
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4 RepliesSniping is good just how it is. It isn´t overpowered but still playable. Nothing sucks more than people crouching in the last corner of a map and killing you instant from a range where you can´t do anything.
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24 RepliesSince this is back at (or still) at the top of feedback trending. Stop. Leave snipers ALONE! Crucible isnt too bad right now as I'm just starting to get into it (and enjoying it). It's far better than destiny 1 which was so filled with snipers that I actually stopped playing it entirely for nearly 2-3 years as I just bought destiny 2 before forsaken and when I finally hopped into crucible for the broadsword I was pleasantly surprised with how much fun it was. Look I get it, you guys want easy kills where you just sit in the back 9th and not ever have to enter the fray. But don't you fret though I guarantee you guys are the same ones missing the last word and you too will be able to make crucible an unfun mess again. Not sure why you guys even complain, you still have destiny 1 maps which show up in rotation all the time which gives you huge lines of sights and can lock down the map with a couple snipers. I can hear it now though "BuT ShErTgOons" use your radar. That is all, hopefully this perishes as it should. I'd argue crucible is in the best place it's been currently.
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74 RepliesGoing to have to disagree. Sniping isn't meant to be a viable option all match long and at any range like it was in D1. Currently sniper rifles are really good in the hands of good snipers and that's how they should be. In the current ammo economy they're also balanced well because it's more difficult to only sit back and snipe all match long since you have to push for ammo. If you want pointers on great sniper rifles and how to use them, I'd recommend the newest episode of Crucible Radio with Joverated guesting. As for shotguns, they're as easy to counter as they've ever been and probably the easiest since vanilla D1. There are so many great options to deal with them. Cammycakes put up a great video on it the other day, recommend giving it a watch.
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5 RepliesI'm trying to be a sniper main, next to Vooping. I think snipers are fine the way they are. The old 'get gud' argument is in place here. Getting that crispy headshot really feels special right now. I don't want to get to the situation where everyone is able to snipe that easily. Because that would encourage camping and would really slow the pace of the current game (which I really like atm). Sniping should be hard, getting flinched makes 100% sense when looking down a scope.. maybe add a few round to the mag, and not to shotguns :P
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4 RepliesHey. No. Putting them back in the special slot was bad enough. One shots do not need a buff. I can not count the times I've had first shot on a sniper and they still manage to headshot me. Snipers are fine. Play better, scrub.
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I -blam!-ing hate snipers, but when a post is so detailed and well written, I can only upvote.
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How do I upvote? We need to fix flinch, hit registration and maybe a better map? Sniper utopia could the name be xD joke to the side. We just need some tweeks to make snipes great again. C'mon geek, make this a reality for us!
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You’ve got my signature for a bring sniping back petition Love your videos
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Thanks for making this thread! Absolutely agreed with everything you said. As a sniper since D1, i agreed that sniping in D2 is not as enjoyable as in D1. I still use sniper a lot and i love sniping, but using SHOTGUN is so much easier and rewarding. Sniper really need buffs! We need to aim PRECISION headshot to fast enemy movement, againts crazy flinch, very small hitbox, got teamshot from far range, can't kill supers with headshot (2 HS not kill as well!) except hunter's super lol. Needed buffs : - Lower zoom magnification scope (suit to d2 maps) - Increase damage againts supers (1HK Headshot, it's beautiful way to counter super) - Increase hitbox headshot like d1 - REDUCE flinch We need stats, but i think 80% use shotgun and 20% use sniper. That's enough to tell that we need sniper buff!
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To the people who don’t want snipers buffed I don’t understand why. They are honestly pretty bad right now. They are not effective in their intended range. Special weapons are special because they out perform primaries in their optimal range. Snipers flat out don’t. Of course you have to be good and quick at aiming but I look back on so many recordings on my Xbox and they were OBVIOUSLY headshots yet they didn’t even register at all. The flinch I think could definitely lowered. I find that people most often challenge me when I’m using a sniper because they know all they have to do is hit me once and flinch me. People should want to get their head out of view as fast as possible. The one hit to supers I don’t think should happen. The whole point of a super is that you can challenge multiple people at once while activated simply because of their killing power. For one person to kill a super with guns should be far and few between. Just my opinion, I love sniping but I have trouble justifying losing multiple gunfights I should have won.
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6 RepliesOnly the best grenades....
