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7/12/2018 2:22:16 PM
17

Giant hole in some people's argument about Teamshooting and TTK

And that hole's name is Hypocrisy. Allow me to elaborate. In a conversation in a [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/246906880?sort=0&page=0&path=1]TTK thread[/url] the other day the usual things came up: Supposed benefits of lower TTK including better 1v2+ moments which led to a teamshooting conversation. Firstly let me explain how lower TTK doesn't help 1v2+ engagements. Although TTK can include abilities it is most widely associated with Weapon kill times. Weapon TTK by itself mainly only means anything in a 1v1. Making everything equal; Player (gun)skill, weapon damage, line of sight, etc... A 1v2 with those parameters the "1" is [u]always[/u] going to lose in a straight out gunfight. What gives the "1" a chance and creates those moments people want is [u]thumbskill[/u]. Movement, map awareness, abilities. TTK has nothing to do with those therefore has nothing to do with overcoming a 1v2+. People don't talk about Gunskill with these moments. They talk about everything they did to survive and take people out. Most times with a 1HK weapon. Lowering TTK does not 'help' gunskill so much that it will change these engagements. The exception is when the skill gap of the '1' and '2' is so wide that it's essentially a curb stomp. Then in another part of the thread larger map design was brought up claiming it would [u]solve[/u] teamshooting. So I made the statement: "[b]Larger maps will encourage flanking. Which is also teamshooting. Is flanking somehow a more acceptable form of teamshooting?[/b]" And the answer I got was: "[b]If the whole team flanks then no, but then they're still walking as a group rather than covering more ground so the end result will still be the same[/b]." Me: " [b]That's kind of hypocritical though. Either it's teamshooting or it's not. How can their be OK ways and not OK ways[/b]." Person: "[b]If one person flanks then it's not teamshooting. If the majority of the team is, then it's teamshooting[/b]." Wait what? Sooo one kind of teamshooting is ok and another isn't? Riiiiight. So I offered this: "[b]Think of a giant V formation. 1 person at the point and 2 at the tips spread out. What's the difference when both of them shoot the 1 person together vs if they were closer together or clumped? The answer is nothing[/b]." You can't conveniently define teamshooting as the [u]whole[/u] team and leave flanking alone. People just want 1v2+ engagements to be easier NOT more viable. These moments can and do happen in D2 it's just harder. I imagine after September when shotguns are more available we'll see more 'moments'. But again TTK doesn't matter with a shotgun. However, if the TTK is lowered it will only hurt the shotgun rusher. This brings to light the hypocrisy and selfishness of this whole debate IMO.

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  • Edited by SirNicolasCage: 7/12/2018 4:44:23 PM
    I agree with you. I can see both sides of the coin. I understand that a lower ttk allows for a skilled player (while using a primary weapon) to outmaneuver his opponents and get a double kill if his shots are precise. But I have always been FOR a higher time to kill. I love the halo pvp aspect (granted halo had WAYYY better game modes that made for more fun memories). To be honest, I wasn’t a huge fan of destiny 1 pvp. I played it for the loot. I’d grind to get a god roll in pve, try it out a couple times in crucible, then throw it in the vault and move on to the next one. The pvp just isn’t fun enough to stand up on its own. However, with all the changes made in destiny 2, I am enjoying destiny pvp ON IT’S OWN more than I ever have. And what I mean by that is I am enjoying the actual gameplay itself without needing an incentive to play (flipping crucible rank for loot or possible post match drops, etc.). The thing with a higher ttk is that it opens up the ability for them having more and more weapon archetypes that can actually compete. For instance, in d1 the primary weapon ttk was incredibly low. There were 4 pulse rifle archetypes. One of them fired so slow, that to keep it within a useable/non-broken range, they either had to make it completely overpowered, or make it useless. Higher ttk allows them more room to adjust damage numbers and better balance the individual weapon time to kill. As far as team shooting goes, it will always be the most effective method in any game. Coordinated teams will always have the advantage. They did in d1 and they do in d2. I don’t think changing the ttk will affect this aspect for solo players by very much, in fact it could possibly make team shorting worse. I don’t know though. As far as power ammo goes, I have been enjoying the current weapon ammo economy. I like the heavy spawn rate because it keeps power weapons in line still, but allows players a few chances a match to make something happen. I’ve never really complained about weapon economy anyways because I always used invective in pvp, and when sidearms were the meta in d1, I used those as well. I found it fun figuring out what was going to be the best. The one and ONLY time I would not play crucible was when snipers had their reign of terror in taken king. I hate snipers and the people that use them. I will always single out a sniper and make it my life’s goal to make sure he doesn’t enjoy his match with me, even if that means dying multiple times in order to push him and make him uncomfortable. Or if it means I literally sit behind a corner and emote while watching him hardscope a lane for 5 minutes waiting for me to pop out (which I will absolutely not do for any reason). I find destiny’s pvp boring, always have. I prefer a fun objective where kills don’t count towards a score and are more of an afterthought or seen as part of a strategy. That being said, I will continue to play destiny including it’s boring pvp because destiny is my home.

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