Wow.... this is sad. They LIE to your face and you apologize to them. Is your memory so short that you don’t remember all the shady things this company has done. These weren’t mistakes either. It was calculated and planned. They used dirty business practices and out right deception to make a quick dollar. I seriously hope you are a bungie employee, I could understand that... this is definitely something they would do.

Horse manure. They ripped us off. They knew it was a weak game. They marketed it very well. Bungie have a saying, “we make games we want to play”... they disregarded their core beliefs and disregarded their loyal fans to for a money grab. Bungie have also been saying they want Destiny to me more than a game, they want it to be peoples hobby. Peoples main activity next to work and family should be taken seriously. Cmon man! The old Bungie would hate what they’ve done. Market research, focus group feedback, risk averse for broad player base = watered down and spoon fed mediocrity. They know it. They neutered themselves and once that happens balls can’t be reattached. You should grow some.

[quote]But as a community we don't know what we want either, the forums and subreddits are contests of the most popular opinion for people angry and upset to bandwagon on, that makes us worse than those who made a mistake.[/quote] I'm sorry OP, but I do not agree with this.There is a huge difference between People that make mistakes in life that actually learn from them mistakes and move forward. Then People that keep making the same mistake over and over and over again going nowhere in life. I also disagree that the community doesn't know what they want. Especially knowing they been giving feedback that has been loud and clear that this company has ignored for 3+ years. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/217475644?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1 Edit: Over a hundred thousand replies between them 2 wish list and it was all thrown in the trash by this company. And that is just the wish list...

No. We know what we want. Bungie knows what we want. They just don't care. Btw, before asking not to plaguing with 'personal vision', could OP please tell me what is the 'public vision' of what this game should be? Or, who could decide this 'public vision'?

Bdobbins said it best: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me six or seven times in a row? I must be a Destiny fan."

No, we KNOW what we want. All the feedback over the last 3 years, tells them what we want. You don't speak for all of us.

[quote]You thought you knew what we wanted, you didn't. But as a community we don't know what we want either, the forums and subreddits are contests of the most popular opinion for people angry and upset to bandwagon on, that makes us worse than those who made a mistake. [/quote] It's the developer's job to separate what's important from what isn't. Destiny had a solid core base of dedicated players who loved the game they created even with it's flaws. Destiny 2 should have been an opportunity take feedback from that community and make improvements in order to attract an even wider audience. Instead they got greedy and decided to completely overhaul the game in order to try to build a game for everyone, and ended up alienating most of their dedicated fans by doing so. A persistent online game (or MMO-lite as some call it) by definition requires a significant investment of time that just isn't compatible with the idea of casual gaming. Bungie's mistake wasn't listening to their core community, most of us agree on 90% or more of what was good and bad about D1. Their mistake was listening to those who left the community in the first place, and trying to attract a group of gamers whose goals are incompatible with the type of game Destiny is. Because of this D2 feels like a game with an identity crisis. Now too casual for most hardcore fans who like the RPG/Looter/MMO elements, and still too much of a time commitment for casual players who don't have 2+ hours/day they can devote to a persistent online game. So don't blame the community, we are the voice, Bungie is the filter and it's their job to decide who they are, what they want Destiny to be, and execute that vision. By that measure Bungie failed that test in every regard.

Man you are extremely blind, extremely naive or you work for Bungie. D2 was no Bungie mistake at all, the awful, half cooked, broken, boring, game with no deep that D2 is, was created on purpose to get the max profit with the minimum develop cost. D2 was a way to milk the cow to the last drop without feeding or even giving water to the cow, 100% short time greed at the maximum posible level. Bungie over hype the game on purpose, lied to us many times on purpose, scam us in all the posible ways and for you all that garbage are a casual mistakes ???? WTF !!!

[quote]But as a community we don't know what we want either[/quote] Uh, no. People wanted a sequel to be better and more satisfying than its predecessor. There's been plenty of good, thoughtful, constructive posts and videos by community members. Bungie had [b]three years[/b] to learn from developing D1, but here we are. They respond to feedback with "we're listening!" and "we hear you!" and yet they still awkwardly dance around the game's biggest problems.

Sorry but the OP is delusional. I chose to gave Bungie the benefit of the doubt for D1, despite being extremely vocal about its glaring faults and all the news that came out after launch (incidents with Joe and Marty, the discovery of cut content etc.) Then they told us they were rebooting the whole thing with D2, gave honestly quite a bit of detailed information about the new systems and how things would be better. Except they ended up being worse than vanilla Destiny, which frankly is unnacceptable. Even now their hubris is on full display in the weekly updates with cheeky responses. At some point you gotta realize that at least 1 of 2 things is true; 1) They're grossly incompetent or 2) They clearly just do not give a damn and will continue to do things their way and tell us to like it. Then there's the horrendously slow rate at which they patch their game, which I'm sure is compounded by the garbage engine they use that takes 8+ hours just to load a single map for editing. I don't hate the IP, quite the contrary - I love the concepts and the lore and what Destiny could/should be. But I also realize that it likely won't ever see that potential realized, at least not in Bungie's hands. Destiny should have been the next major defining FPS much the same way Halo was for a generation of kids/teenagers, instead it's likely going to go down as one of the biggest failings ever. They had something truly magical on their hands, and they squandered it. And frankly I'm getting beyond sick of this happening - 1st it was final fantasy 14 (which I know is going strong but I actually liked where it was heading towards the end of 1.0 better) then Paragon (damn you Epic, same thing too they just did not listen to my fellow founders at all and worshipped Reddit/their own opinion) and now Destiny. D3 will come out I have no doubt, but I'm willing to bet it won't be received too well and will likley be the end of this IP, and Bungie will only have themselves to blame. Don't forget they're also facing stiff competition from Anthem, The Division 2 and Borderlands 3 all of which should be out within the next 10-12 months. Just pains me to see Bungie destroy themselves like this. I had an absolute ball with the alpha/beta in PvP, honestly the most fun I'd had with an FPS in ages (or at least the early days of battlefield 3) and made a lot of friends too. But it's just been a downward spiral since launch and while there were some fun upticks (like VoG) there's no denying the final result. And sadly if this does end up tanking the way many are predicting, Activision will probably finish Bungie off for breaching their contract :/

Everyone who is talking shit to you are idiots. You make a fair point. We wanted more primary gunfights in pvp, now we want less gunfights in pvp. We want to go faster, now we don't because we want to kill someone is 0.2 seconds without them escaping. We wanted less blanket nerfs so bungie took away random rolls to fix that, now we want random rools, meaning we will also get blanket nerfs (Or buffs?) again. This community is now worse than CoDs community. Someone has an opinion? witchhunt them. You like something Bungie did? witchhunt.