There's just no meaningful reason to continue playing Destiny. None. From top to bottom, it's a shitshow. Prestige raid? Not worth it since there's no progression. Farm public events? Not worth it with XP cooldowns. And the other issues the game has, from the shitty token system to the new weapon slots to the weak PvP, are all deeply rooted into the game. This ship set sail in the wrong direction a long time ago. They may make a few adjustments to its course but they're not about to turn it around now or anytime soon. I believe Mercules when he says this is it. This is the game Bungie wants.

I'm going to get a lot of hate from saying this, but destiny 2 is amazing, and hopefully it gets better. I prefer The destiny 1 weapon system for pve I have to say. Feels like we lost variety. Bungie should listen to these episodes.

I actually can’t play anymore, it just makes me angry, I’ve never experienced that with a game before. I come back to the forums with the unrealistic hope that there has been huge changes. I am just amazed with what they did to a game that could have defined this console generation.

D2 Double sucks, tell your friends.

Well here's my thoughts on this my fist works better then any of my guns which bungie should hang their heads in shame for this shit. & this game still sucks

Good episode. Wish it could've been longer, was really enjoying the topics. [quote]What are thoughts on the updates Bungie has made to PvP, has it improved play?[/quote] Yes and No. While I do enjoy not being sniped every 5 secs for daring to step away from cover, I do miss being able to do appreciable damage to other guardians - primaries feel weak and grenades suck. 4v4 doesn't feel like there's enough enemy targets. Feels empty even on these small maps especially when the opposing team is traveling in packs. Supers take too long to charge. I'm almost afraid to use it, as if I'm saving it just for that perfect moment that rarely comes. Edit: Really wanted to mention this but forgot. Competitive Playlist: What's the point? There are no official or visible rankings and Leaderboards. Isn't this why people would want to jump in and sweat? Isn't this how people justify their time spent? Isn't ranking or a certain spot on the leaderboard something to strive for? [quote]At this point in D2, how does the new weapon system (kinetic, energy, power) stand up verse D1's system?[/quote] It doesn't hold up at all. 2 primaries are underwhelming. There is no medium power level gear, it's either dinky-doo with primaries or "kinda powerful" with power ammo - why choose a shotgun or sniper over a sword or rockets (which feel weak as shit, btw)? I want to feel powerful in PvE. D2 offers nothing for this. Hell, we aren't even allowed to be overpowered for an activity just to pretend to be powerful, if only for a few minutes. There is no gear that offers any feeling of power over another. It's all so bland, nothing feels exciting, nothing that says "I'm a carrot, chase me." [quote]Do D2 game modes really fit 4v4 play?[/quote] For Comp, yes. Those modes rely more heavily on team play, as they should. For Quickplay? No, as I mentioned earlier, there's just not enough action to be fun. In D1 with 6v6, you could pick just about any spot on the map and find targets to engage. In D2, there's a whole lot of emptiness, either because they're roaming in packs, or just too spread out. [quote]Lack of power and ammo in Prestige level play[/quote] Feels like a zero sum game. Killing yellow bars requires 2-3 rockets and gives you back 2. For regular PvE play, why not let us carry more power ammo, especially for Strike Bosses or NF? With Power weapon options much more diverse, why am I still carrying D1 levels of ammo? Why not let me carry 30-40 shotgun ammo, or 15-20 rockets? [quote]Is D2 too extreme casual to hard core?[/quote] Absolutely. There's little worth chasing, as all weapons are near equal and number too few (plus Vault is too small to hold everything in "a collection game.") There's not much that takes considerable time and/or effort to acquire. With D1, it felt like there was always something to do, something to strive for, something worth logging in for 3-5 nights/week. Not with D2. They went too extreme with the casualness. They need better balance - something for longer term players to strive for, yet casuals can feel satisfied with what they can accomplish within their limited timeframe. [quote]Thoughts on balance, kill times and the Bungie ethos on weapons[/quote] Separation of the sandboxes is a MUST!!! Yeah, PvP is pretty well balanced, but we're left with boring, underperforming gear and abilities in PvE. As for the weapons themselves, I'd say rein in the range on Autos a bit (Uriels Gift should not be competing with Scouts at Med-Long range), buff Pulses slightly, get rid of sidearms, buff grenade damage and buff Super charge rate. Make the game fun again. [quote]Will D2 be a reverse of D1's backward power creep?[/quote] No, D2 will not slowly introduce more powerful weapons willingly. At best we'll see some interesting perk combos, but nothing that screams "chase me!" This entire game has been a drain on everything that made the game fun - power, space magic, chucking grenades, different types of Supers, and larger groups of friends playing together.

[b]What are thoughts on the updates Bungie has made to PvP, has it improved play?[/b] New to the game and playing on PC so I cant comment on the changes from D1. My bro has played since D1 beta and I have watched him play and although he was pretty damn good at PvP it looked like he was just getting sniped and super spammed or hit with multiple grenades at a time over and over. To me the game looked like it required little to no skill with your weapons as it was all about spamming supers. It looked like COD with with Overwatch supers on hyper cool down. To me it never looked fun so I never bothered to play. Now coming from someone who is new and playing strictly on PC the PvP is crazy fun and a nice change of pace from Overwatch. I'm in love with Hand Cannons, Swords and Sub Machine Guns. I feel like my current set up is a great mix of my favorite Overwatch characters, McCree, Sombra and Genji. [b]At this point in D2, how does the new weapon system (kinetic, energy, power) stand up verse D1's system?[/b] Again can't comment on the changes from D1 but me personally I like this system. It allows me to choose weapons based on both my play style and the content I'm playing. Being able to equip a long range and close to medium range weapons makes for more efficiency in more situations. This is especially true for PvP. The power weapons all seem well balanced and between my friends who are also new to Destiny 2 PC we have all found favorites that work well with how we play. Sniper is the only one I feel is underwhelming as the handling and aim down sights seems to slow on almost all snipers I have found and the flinch mechanic feels over tuned. [b]Do D2 game modes really fit 4v4 play?[/b] I would love to see larger PvP game modes. My clan came to this game from Overwatch and we typically have 6 of us on at a time. Although I have been enjoying the PvP on PC it would be kick ass to have 6v6 or even 8v8. [b]Lack of power and ammo in Pestige level play[/b] I have not done the Prestige Nightfall yet. I have read complaints about both the night fall and the raid not giving out enough power ammo but I found the exact opposite. I found I was getting plenty of power ammo but not enough Kinetic or Energy ammo. [b]Is D2 too extreme casual to hard core?[/b] I would say it favors a mix of both. While a casual can reach max power with just milestones they will still have to grind to get equipment that suits their play style and then slot it with proper mods. There is more to this game then max power but that seems to be the focus on if this game favors casuals over hardcore. While getting tokens is easy the RNG of turning them in can make the gear acquisition slow and frustrating at times. I would really like to get a Kinetic SMG but it appears RNG hates me... [b]Thoughts on balance, kill times and the Bungie ethos on weapons[/b] Kill times for PvP are perfect. I feel that if it was any faster they should just call this game Space Fantasy COD. Now my POV is that from a PC only player who used to play nothing but Overwatch and Diablo. In Overwatch the kill times are much slower and your super and abilities have far longer cool downs. In PvP I feel like a god, popping off head shots with hand cannons like its nothing and taking out teams like they are standing still. 100 FPS with 102 FoV at 1440p on a 21:9 the game is crisp and responsive. (well until their recent patch lol) The PvP gun play is amazing and my only complaint in this area is that my clan has to split up into two teams of three instead of all playing together. Also on a side note why is everyone complaining about Mida Multitool? Don't think I have ever seen someone use it on PC. [b]Will D2 be a reverse of D1's backward power creep?[/b] Here is my biggest problem with all the topics on D2. They all stem from people who have religiously played D1 and can't seem to let go of the fact that this is an entirely new game even if it shares very similar game play and mechanics and is a continuation of the base story from D1. The community also seems to be very anti new players and their views of the game. I have made a few positive comments about D2 and every time I do I get attacked by D1 players. None of you are stepping back to see from the perspective of new players. I expected to be able to come to these forums and talk about the game with other players but quickly found that was not possible unless I want to talk negatively about the game. My brother who is a long time Destiny super fan has quit the game not because of the changes but purely because of the community and how toxic it has become. He says the toxicity has killed his love of gaming and now his Xbox collects dust. Edit: Thank you to those who are able to act like adults. Its both sad and pathetic to see such a vast majority of the commentators here proving my final points about how toxic this community has become.

Bump for later!! Come on down to blockbuster......we just got the original [b]IT[/b] vhs tape.....someone.....please rent something. [spoiler]H0Tlava300 btw[/spoiler] Edit: Stephen king has agreed to maybe think about renting a vhs tape!!! His exact words were "ha....in you're nightmares Ill buy one".....wait

No time to listen but here’s my thoughts. The gun play is good and bad. It sucks on console. Its amazing on pc. Hit registration is horrible on console. The recoil patterns on most guns make them unusable. Mid and high impact pulses have no place in the Crucible. Hand cannons only work on pc. There’s only one archetype of sidearm that is viable (on console.) I hate radar ads delay. MIDA needs to have third eye removed. It will make players move more. High caliber rounds isn’t an issue on pc, so that’s not my problem anymore. Exotics need to be buffed.

Appreciate Mercules and Kyt on. They always have something great to talk about regarding the game, and its always good to hear their insight. With that being said, time to talk about the topics: [b]What are thoughts on the updates Bungie has made to PvP, has it improved play? [/b] If anything, it further hindered certain gametypes. What is really the point in even going for a tag now in supremacy when you get credit for a point on a kill? This just fundamentally changed what the gamemode even is in the first place, and just turns it into a long teamshot clash variant. Just no point here to the change, along with the score upgrade. this mode overall just is dead on so many levels, with the pacing, the weapons system, and the 4v4. Supremacy does not belong in this game. Control also suffers from similar issues as supremacy, as it just doesnt work in the game they are presenting us with. The spawn logic fix was a needed change, but from the games ive played today, it doesnt really feel different. The overarching increased score for mercy just made no sense here, as the score difference was already kind of silly for the mercy rule kick in spot (50 or 60-9), so now they increased this further, which just makes it more drawn out for longer. No point in it. Score change will not make this mode any better, as it just doesnt really fit this game. i really have no opinion on survival, as i never saw an issue with how it way set up to start. [b]At this point in D2, how does the new weapon system (kinetic, energy, power) stand up verse D1's system?[/b] PVE wise, the D1 system is far and a way superior. PvP wise I feel the same, with one notable selection I'll get to momentarily. This is far and away the biggest gripe i have with this game, besides unrewarding endgame and 4v4, with the weapons and 4v4 often being the dynamic duo. PvE is just awful with this system. it really limits how you can approach things on a higher end content level, ie the Raid or NF, as it just makes the content a real slog at times with two primaries for choices. To be honest I would have prefered them to have made the kinetic slot all elementals and keep the heavy and secondary slots of D1. For some reason, I just think that they are putting too much weight on the element. Crucible wise, its hard to make parallels to this without talking about 4v4, as they often go in tandem with one another. The short answer is for almost all modes its a resounding no for me, as its the main factor as to why games are snails paced, and teamshot oriented only. It removed the fun within the crucible, at least for me, as you just have only so many ways to do things, and it is the anti-thesis to my preferred way to play the game, which is semi aggressive to objectives to capture. Right now, I just play the game of who peeks first, and how many, and thats just not fun to me. The only place in my eyes, that the new weapon system works well is the Countdown gametype, as it just works well, but that may have to do with the fact that im used to the Search & Destroy methodical play, as this is the quintessential competitive game type next to Capture the Flag for MLG play. It just works here. [b]Do D2 game modes really fit 4v4 play?[/b] It really comes down to the game type. The quickplay game modes of Supremacy and Control had to sacrifice a ton just to try and be viable in this new style of play, and both modes do not work at all. They both need the faster pacing of their original versions to be playable at all, and 4v4 completely kills these modes, as does the weapon system changes, which do not play into these two modes at all. There is a reason why competitive CoD teams use a game mode like CTF as their objective game type, because it fits into the lower player count quite well, where as Domination (Zone Control) just does not fit the premise at all. clash and survival are really the same thing, since they are both TDM, they work in either system. The only game type that I feel works with this 4v4 style of play is Countdown, where as the the player count and weapon system work really well for this type of game. Its why when Trials is Countdown, it feels right. [b]Lack of power and ammo in Prestige level play[/b] This is why the worlds first teams were using a ammo glitch to be able to get some consistency to droprates, as the power ammo drops can be abysmal. There is a very real issue here, and part of me feels that the weapon system change has just amplified this issue to a large degree. its hard to take on mobs like bathers with primary weapons only. If we still had the old weapon system, this wouldnt be as big an issue, but it just becomes way more glaring due to the weapon system constraints. the same can also be said about the lack of Kinetic and Energy ammo as well, as ive also seen this be a major issue, expecially on Calus, where i run out of all and barely can get ammo at times. I imagine the issue is worse on Prestige Raid, as I just dont really see a point in doing it. However this is an issue on normal, and i just expect the issues to be exemplified. [b]Is D2 too extreme casual to hard core?[/b] It leans towards the extreme casual side for most of everything. [b]Thoughts on balance, kill times and the Bungie ethos on weapons[/b] Awful on the ttk and balance issues. Their Ethos is what consistently holds the game back. I lean towards Mercules' opinion mostly on this. [b]Will D2 be a reverse of D1's backward power creep? [/b] Going to have to also agree with Mercules on this part. Its going to end up the same. -LK

Meeh -blam!- destiny They said -blam!- us, so

Destiny is too casual. It's literally made like overwatch so I can pick up for a few minutes to play then drop it when I get bored. No reason to grind and I'm pretty sure a lot of the weapons are made to drop a lot easier than others to try to perceive a grind. The game modes need to expand a bit with the special events focused on 4v4 or tactical gameplay leaving more for fun game modes like free for all 8v8 with vehicles or added over elements. The only thing they added is clans support which in itself is good but they made some of the core aspects of the end game focused on this. People wanted trials because u can get a small team quick and easy or solo it urself. They need to add something like that for solo players. A solo raid with great story that can drop it's own specific loot for the line wolf type characters rather than forcing them on a single endgame raid. I'm not really complain ing about endgame much because the missions are still plenty but are lack luster compared to main story missions. Also....... Why the duck is their only free strikes???

THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! More power! Buff all the things!! Meet us half way between D1 & D2! That’s ALL we want!! Murcules should be enough of a respected analyst to where that opinion holds weight. Do it, PLEASE, Bungie! 😢

This kinetic, energy, power system is a nightmare in pve. I kind of understand why bungie felt like it would work for both pvp and pve, but pve is suffering In reality. I've been running strikes and there aren't very many yellow bars to get purple bricks from, so essentially I'm running around with two primaries running out of ammo shooting red bars because some if the red bars take two clips to kill (looking at you minotaur). To add on supers are slow (more on this in a sec) Really miss the Primary, Special, and heavy for pve. I felt like I had options, I had to think tactically in raids and in the night fall, and I was having fun while doing it. I get players saying they were getting sick of getting shotgunned, but is that currently a problem in Destiny? No. Special spawns every min but if you die, you lose it, which made people stop going for it because it slowed the game down. Speaking of slowing the game down...super, grenades, rockets and guardians movement feels extremely slow compared to destiny. Hell even the cabal are jumping over my rockets. That fast paced element that I loved in destiny is gone...Destiny 2 looks beautiful, but its sooo slow. So excited to hear more about these new mods. IMHO, I think mods could fix these complaints about random rolled weapons. Random rolled weapons caused balancing issues, we don't want that(I dont). If they added an extra slot or two to all weapons and let players put mods on those weapons (or gear) I'm going to lose my mind. I'm glad LostWing can see both the up and down in D2. Even happier to hear from you guys again :) Edit: will edit later, I'm driving lol