Right, but it seems people push for path of least resistance ALWAYS. It's almost like they don't want to play the game, they just want the in-game rewards fast. I posited to a friend the other day, "If you loaded up the game and had the option to hit "X" and receive max level, max light, and every item and max currency items would you?" He said no of course, but got my point that reconciling "time spent" vs "rewards earned" is the way you view non entertainment activities, not entertainment.

I get it dude but to me it's not just the path of least resistance. That is one concept that these games need to have but you are also missing a more important factor. Yes RPG style games need to have a grind. [b][u]However[/u][/b] and it is a big however, if we are grinding for something which this game does need. It has to be something worth grinding for. THAT to me is what this game is missing. I need the grind to keep playing but it also has to come with items that are worth grinding for. The items that these events and endgame activities are offering are no different in stats and perks than the legendary gear that we have had before we even finished the storyline, some blues are even better in PvP than the legendary lol. All they did was change the look. I refuse to grind for items that are a re-skin of blues and purples that we already have. That is my biggest issue with this game.

I think you have some points, but I think we disagree on what created the issue. I think the issue is created by the developer listening to the loudest complaints "everyone to be equal" - "max light through all activities" - "nothing special held behind raid wall" This game was like a socialist experiment, whereas vanilla destiny actually rewarded those that overcame the challenges, this game just says "everyone can haz, just play" The design allowed for everything to be obtained too easily. Or in other words, "max light through all activities". Now the devs realize how much of a folly that is, and any bit they try and steer away from such will serve nothing other than annoying those that just want to "get stuffs fast". End of the day, if they don't move away from this model with future expansions, we will see a continued bland cookie-cutter endeavor with limited drive to accomplish and tackle the harder content. I think we still only have about 20% of the playerbase that has bothered to even beat the raid ONCE lol. [quote]I refuse to grind for items that are a re-skin of blues and purples that we already have. That is my biggest issue with this game.[/quote] -- If this is really your view (which is a totally acceptable view)...why even care?

Nope I agree with you completely. Just revise it towards the end a little bit. My group and I can easily finish the raid no problem and we have multiple times. But none of us even signed on since week 4 to try the prestige mode because the rewards are not worth the time spent. On the flip side in Vanilla D1 we ran VoG 3x a week and hardmode even after the first DLC dropped because we not only wanted the rewards but most of us wanted 3 copies of each for all 3 characters. The gear was just that much better. To make you understand the difference even more. Some of my friends even went as far as restarting characters just to get another shot at raid loot. With this raid and endgame rewards we honestly can care less lol. I guess to paraphrase what I'm trying to get across yes I 100% agree with you we need a grind that's what keeps players playing. But if there was a grind with this loot I wouldn't have even lasted 2 weeks because this is pathetic.