This. Destiny 1 hooked people into playing by rewarding them unpredictably. Didn't know if you'd get that drop in your first raid run, or your 50th. It's how you lay the ground work for addictive behavior as people chase that unpredictable reward. Destiny 2 shows respect for the player. Your rewarded predictably and in an effort dependent fashion. If put lots of hours in, your rewarded well and progress quickly. If you don't you progress slowly. But as you can see, some people prefer the [i]excitement[/i] of a slot machine rather than a steady paycheck. The grinding of The Division and Warframe to Diablo 3s Loot 2.0.

[quote]This. Destiny 1 hooked people into playing by rewarding them unpredictably. Didn't know if you'd get that drop in your first raid run, or your 50th. It's how you lay the ground work for addictive behavior as people chase that unpredictable reward. Destiny 2 shows respect for the player. Your rewarded predictably and in an effort dependent fashion. If put lots of hours in, your rewarded well and progress quickly. If you don't you progress slowly. But as you can see, some people prefer the [i]excitement[/i] of a slot machine rather than a steady paycheck. The grinding of The Division and Warframe to Diablo 3s Loot 2.0.[/quote] Look I really hope they can turn this around, it’s a beautiful looking game, but I share the same views as my friends it lacks depth and the search for something awesome. You can’t ignore the 75% drop in players since launch, we have a full clan and only 9 people were online Saturday playing destiny and not one wanted to raid (it’s not worth it was the response} when I started out in D1 I subbed to a lot of big destiny streamers and content creators (I know how you feel about them) they streamed everyday almost until the end of D1 they were all exited for D2 and all ready 98% of them are streaming other games. Then there’s the forums they were never like this in D1, there were always more defending than complaining, that’s not the case now. I am going to be really interested to see what the pc community think of this game. You have to bare in mind that there are a lot of younger people on these forums who can’t quite express themselves accurately enough but if you go through the posts, and there are a lot, there are some very reasonable and intelligent articles. Call of duty has better numbers at this stage in its release compared to destiny 2. The numbers are proving that the casual fan base aren’t sticking around for long enough to sustain this game. This model of everyone’s a winner doesn’t work. I’m not having a go at you this is just how I see things, I like many others want the game to succeed but something has to change.

What's going here is simple. 1. People are having euphoric recall about Destiny 1. Not only was Destiny 1 [i]that bad[/i], it was worse than this. Not only were people calling for the death of Destiny with the release of every new AAA game, "People still play that game?" was a popular meme. The game's loot system was so broken people shot into monster closets and one cartoonist compared Diablo 3 to Destiny: "Three hours playing Diablo 3@...happy gamer sitting in a pile of loot; "Three hours playing Destiny"... annoyed gamer looking at ONE engram. People are forgetting that you could play an entire week of Vanilla Destiny, only see two lengendary drops...and have both of those give you RARE gear. Or clear the raid a half dozen times and get NOTHING but shaders and upgrade mats. 2. The "problem" here is three things. a. Some people want this game to be a daily grind, and it wasn't built to be one. Bungie's stream on Friday shows that they are emulating Diablo 3. A game built on [i]episodic [/i] play around seasons and special events. So they are looking for something this game is no longer going to provide. Destiny 2 had moved away from that addictive play model of lots of effort for unpredictable reward. b. Some people want endless progression. No loot based game gives you that. Destiny 1 and Warframe hide that they couldn't under tons of grindinesd. Diablo 3 hides it by letting you continuously see numbers increase, but autoscales the difficulty, so you end up running on a hamster wheel. Destiny 2 doesn't hide it. Because they aren't trying to force you to keep playing c. Some people want status symbols.. and this game isn't providing them. Seasons will bring some, but they will only be cosmetic. The days of this game locking game-breakingly powerful gear behind inaccessible content are over. Bungie wised up and realized that this is really bad game design for any game with competitive play. TLDR: People are stubbornly refusing to accept that this is [i]vanilla[/i] Destiny 2 and are comparing this game (unfairly) to Year 3 of Destiny 1. No base game is going to be comparable to a game that has had 2 DLCs, 2 major expansions, many free content updates, and three years worth of raids and other end game content. Also people are deceiving themselves about how "good" Vanilla Destiny 1 was. It's game mechanics were great. Everything else was a broken mess.

“c. Some people want status symbols.. and this game isn't providing them. Seasons will bring some, but they will only be cosmetic. The days of this game locking game-breakingly powerful gear behind inaccessible content are over. Bungie wised up and realized that this is really bad game design for any game with competitive play.” Well I hope you’re right. My experience with life is that everyone is competitive in some shape or form. Nearly all games are competitive, video games, football games, the Olympic Games, esports, there are winners and losers, that’s life. Who would bother competing for a gold medal if everyone got one? This whole make things easy for everyone and everyone wins thing is completely flawed it’s against human nature, the only people for it are surprisingly the people who don’t like to try too hard or the parent who feels sorry for their little Timmy because he came last in a race at school. I don’t like pvp, why? because I’m bad at it and I don’t like losing, but I used to say to myself and others that I’m just not competitive but deep down I knew I was. I think one day you will understand this if you don’t already deep down. There no reason to play this game yes it’s gun play is fun but that alone won’t keep people interested the same as cosmetics won’t. They’ve screwed this up and they know it.

Not that cut and dried. People have competitive sides and cooperative sides to their personalities. How much of each you have and which side dominates, is individual Because of my past in sports I can pretty much turn my competitive side on and off at will. Unless I'm in a setting that is extremely competitive (like Trials) where it will simply get triggered. In most settings my cooperative side is dominant. We have need for both, but the key is understanding which side is best for a given situation, and to temper it to the situation. Frankly I think Bungie is taking the right approach here. Many of the things they did in Destiny caused such problems that they've had to reboot the game [i]twice[/i] now simply to get rid of them. Nice to see they aren't continuing to do the same things yet expecting a different outcome.

The steady "payback" would be ok if it was worth it...why play the game to get the same weapons and armor over and over?...For example take the value strike from D1....valus had a chance to drop the treads upon stars scout rifle...you play the strike a few times and it drops but it doesn't have the perks you like on it so you play it some more until it drops...that's replayability...in d2 let's say the pyramidian strike has a chance to drop the nameless midnight scout you play the strike few times and it drops...that's it...no need to play it anymore since all the nameless scouts have the same perks...that's the grind that d2 is missing...and what makes it worse is that they give you these great weapons so early in the game...so why play the game? if they gave us something to chase then it would be worth it [spoiler]sorry post was so long[/spoiler]

No, there really isn't anymore. If Bungie makes the game this easy and casual friendly there needs to be a shit ton more content if really think people will play it until the DLC. Atleast D1 had the audacity to hide the lack of content under a grind, D2 just slaps you in the face. But then again you probably like it when Bungie slaps you with their dick like the fanboy you are.

You just proved my point. You're crying because there's no grind.

You really have to be a simpleton of immense levels if you think 'depth' only means grind. Have you heard people call Fallout 4 "ocean of a content but depth of a puddle"? Well D2 is "puddle of content with a drop of depth" and even that is kind of overselling it.

Speak for yourself. People are missing the grind, and status symbol/trophy rewards. That they can show off and say, "See I'm a bad ass and you're not." There is plenty to do. But it's not giving some people the emotional reward they are seeking.

It must be tiring to be Bungies fvck mattress all of the time. You know you can be critical of them, right? They don't care about your fandom.