I think this will probably just be my last reply to threads like these. I'll do my best to attempt to hit everything you touched on but no promises. The give it time argument is a valid argument. While Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 share a lot of things they are also pretty different games. Expecting all quality of life changes from Destiny 1 to be needed or even work with Destiny 2 just doesn't work. Some things like heroic strikes and strike specific loot do work. Things like record books are not needed. I personally think the whole argument is messy regardless of which side you sit on. Thus I don't like to acknowledge/debate that point. Being told to go play something else is also a valid point. Bungie has openly admitted that the never made Destiny to be a game you sign in everyday and play for hours. It was always marketed towards those who sign in a few times a week for an hour or 2 at most. Now if someone is telling you that as a response for complaints in general no. That's stupid. You do have the right to complain. That being said if your complaint is "i've nothing to do and I don't feel like just running strikes/pvp etc for the sake of playing" then yes. Being told to go play something else is valid. "browse the forums it's a common opinion." I don't see why this is even considered a valid reply to you. People are allowed to enjoy the game and not be upset like you. Also like it or not even if every single person who came to these forums and posted agreed with your opinion it's still very likely you'd be in the minority. The non vocal is almost always the majority in a community. There is no right opinion here. "The first game was so grindy though, at least this one has good drop rates' I think I speak for most players here when..." You should never ever say that. You only speak for yourself unless someone tells you that you can speak for them. Just a tip for writing threads or debating in general. Semantics aside there are plenty of us out there that haven't received everything we are looking for. I would be very curious to see drop rate comparisons for exotics in this game versus exotic drop rates in Destiny 1 after 3 of coins was dropped. I still personally get excited when I see an exotic engram drop. I also personally enjoy that exotic armor is more about aiding a playstyle rather than creating a new one. I think exotic guns should be the things that break/make new gameplay. Since it is an FPS after all. "don't even try to give me excuses.." You really need to check your attitude. If you think peoples opinions are excuses you've literally narrowed your perspective on the situation and no fruitful discussion can come from debating with you. Painting Bungie as bad also does not help your case. Destiny 1 had an identity crisis. They practically had to rewrite the game halfway in it's development life cycle and even then it still struggled to be something. Bungie scrambled to try and give us what we asked for in destiny 1 while dealing with dated dev tools and a mess of a game. "Destiny 2 is already dying.." This line just further proves to me that i'm kind of wasting my time. I really hate assuming about someone but you've posted more than one thing in this thread hinting at the behavior of a specific kind of person. The kind that just can't listen to anyone that doesn't agree with them. But i'll stop tearing on this. Destiny 2 is certainly not dying. Destiny 1 had several points in which people considered it dying or dead. Yet it stuck for 3 years and had a very active community with active content creators. Unless you can actually give stats to back this don't ever make this claim. (though the whole x game is dying thing is just a half arsed argument to begin with and should never be taken seriously.) "screw the casual players." Bungie can't. They are the people who make up the biggest part of the population. Not the hardcore players who run raids more than once a week. Not the hardcore players who stay up all night just to do reset on 3 characters. etc. On a fundimental level you should never ignore a part of your fanbase no matter how big or small. Why do you think nightfalls/raids got stepped up in terms of difficulty? for the harcore players. just as the rest of the game was made more casual for the more casual players. The rest of this tangent is ignorable. You're trying to justify one part of the community being more important than another. in a developers eyes everyone should be equally important. As a Destiny 1 vet been around since the beta of that game I just simply don't share your view. I've always wanted a game that is more RPG than FPS. I wanted D2 to be that. But we got a bigger focus on FPS. I understand why. I do have my own issues and I do think this game can be better. But I don't think it's a disaster like you think. I don't hold any malice towards Bungie. I'd rather enjoy what this game is and make suggestions on where they can improve rather than shaming Bungie. I'm just going to ignore your last bit. It's too childish to be worth even getting into.

I find it hilarious that there are millions od guardians out there, yet 500 forum warriors think they are the majority

TL;DR I'm a moron who spent $60 on something that I wanted to be perfect instead of waiting for reviews and feedback pls give me attention. Edit:Wow you really are stupid , I don't think you know the whole back story about activsion running dlc payed micro transactions and all that. Sucks that idiot's blame bungie when's it not even there fault. Like when people use to complain about the timed exclusives it wasn't bungies fault , Microsoft had a chance to buy the exclusive content but they refused and PlayStation bought it instead. Destiny 1 wasn't even supposed to be on Xbox so be lucky they even had it.

So buff fusion rifles?

Great. Another shit post about how the game isn't what you wanted. Btw D2 is what it looks like when companies listen to and please casual fans, which they have.

I appreciate everyone's opinions. It's why I posted this.. I'm reading them all and enjoying seeing how others see this game because it's actually insightful looking at this from a different point of view. I'm completely open to others opinions as long as it's actually constructive and not just 'go play something else' or 'quit whining you pussy' I nay be wrong in some aspects but it's an opinion, it's meant to be subjective. So obviously we won't all agree. Obviously. And when I said 'screw the casuals, they're ignorant', I definitely could've phrased that better. But I 100% meant to just express my frustrations at the people who didn't understand all the bullshit we day one players have been through, since the start, yet will sit there and argue that this game is fantastic and bungie is fantastic blah blah it's a well polished game etc etc . It's not their fault obviously that they haven't seen all the bullshit or had to go through it, I just didn't explain myself better. I'm angry at Bungie because I want this game to succeed. I want it to be -blam!-ing amazing.. End of story.

What a whiny little girl lol

Screw the casual players... I’ll go f—k myself then.

The alliance with Activision stole the light from Bungie...

Destiny only has enough staying power to last a week or 2 at best. Go and play Warframe instead. It has a great customization system, plenty of playable frames, tons of grind, and it's free.

They need to either heavily improve the mod system to make it worthwhile or just scrap it and bring back random rolls and weapons and armor(which I prefer) D1 was 10x better imo See you guys in overwatch😁

[quote]'But not everyone feels this way, I actually like the game' Browse the forums. Talk to other players. Trust me, this is such a common topic. [/quote] And...... Ad populum Your argument is over buddy. [spoiler]I do agree with most of this though, just don't be fallacious in your reasoning. [/spoiler]

'Why don't you go play something else then and stop whining?' What the people who are complaining about those complaining don't understand is this. Those of us frustrated with this game (sure, maybe not all. There are some trolls.) want this game to be exceptional and wanted Bungie to succeed. We expected much better than we got, and Bungie's attitude has been frustrating to say the least. After now 3 years of this cycle, some people are now just getting legit angry. It's not because they wanted Destiny 2 to be bad, or for Bungie to not listen. All they want is a good and fun game, with a developer who listens to the people who actually will play and support their game. At this point, besides saying stuff in the forum, its all but lost. Destiny is doomed most likely, and it sucks. Hard. People feel taken advantage of, and that is never a good thing to put your player base into a position of feeling. Bungie can print off all the "oh, don't listen to the haters, its so amazing doing nothing but public events for no reason" comments all they want. Those people will not be sticking around either. They are still at the denial stage of grief.

There is no sense to say give Bungie time for something that was in Destiny 1 since the beginning, and after all that "we learned, now we know what Destiny is all about" and making it worse than Destiny 1. Destiny 1 concept, is miles better than Destiny 2. Destiny 1 co-op was miles better. You could play the story on hard for ultimate challenge, with 2 friends, that was tones of fun, plus low level Strikes. You had overall more Strikes, Nightfalls where better designed, Raid was light years better, plus you could play the heroic version of Vault of Glass after you completed the normal version, without waiting. PvP was miles better. Class design was miles better. Rewards for everything you did rewarded the player miles better than Destiny 2. Destiny 2 have better graphics, better level design, sound and music, but thats it. So saying give a sequel time to hit the same level of quality content, that Destiny 1 had since the beginning is just foolish. Destiny 2 should not only be better than Destiny 1 on release(Its not), but also better than Destiny 1 with all the DLCs combined(light years away), or its a huge step back. The Witcher 2 was a great game, fans dreamed about The Witcher 3 as a better, abit bigger but with same great elements of the last game. What they got, was a 10x bigger, better, 10x more advanced with 10x more quality everywhere. This is how you create a sequel! When you pay for a sequel and you get much less, you feel, like you get robbed!

I really don't understand why the people who disagree are here. If you like the game just go play it. What exactly is harming you? If bungie sees peoples feelings towards the game and decide to do something what do you lose? Everyone who paid money for this game has right to protest so anyone downing that fact is simply ignorant and immature. Go play your precious game and enjoy your "content"

[quote]Where's the mystery hunts for ghosts? Where's the magical back story that had us all intrigued in the first one instead of a story that doesn't make sense? Where's the long quests for exotic weapons that you could proudly show off? Where's the achievements that kept us busy for hours? Where's the elusive unicorn weapons that got us excited and hopeful and whenever anyone got one, the party turned into a raucous frenzy? [/quote] The main one that has me pissed at you, is the story element...you liked the grimore cards. So you were the select few? I'll be glad to see you done and gone. This version was in development by a different team within bungie months after the initial launch. It is leaps and bounds better than vanilla Destiny. Oh but why doesn't it have all the elements of d1 finished product...holy -blam!-ing shit that is just a dumb expectation.