So me and my friend were arguing over whether or not the Red Legion could beat the Covenant from halos 1-Reach.
I argued for the cabal. Big, badass turtles, blow up entire solar systems, good tactics, tech, and so forth.
My friend argued for the Covenant.
Which side do you people think would win?
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Blow up the sun!
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Edited by Starfall Shadow: 9/25/2017 6:07:50 AMThe almighty is irrelevant in this discussion, as the Red Legion have no way of knowing which system to use it in to maximize its threat to the Covenant (a group of multiple species from different planets, possibly and very likely in different systems) whereas with Earth, they already knew since the Cabal had been on Mars already. Also, there is [b]no way in hell[/b] the Red Legion has [i]more[/i] ships, or even [i]better[/i] ships than the Covenant. Unless new canon info is released about Cabal ships, there is nothing to prove they can output more destructive potential than ships that can glass planets and whose plasma torpedoes can melt through multiple layers of Titanium-A ship plating (I'm ignoring Leviathan because it's not [u]controlled[/u] by the Red Legion, and I'm only focusing on them, as per the topic question). Also, let's see how well the Red Legion fare against scarabs. tl;dr Covenant stomp very easily. Damn, now I want to go back and read my Halo novels.
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I think this question is inherently flawed due to the war taking place between the entire Covenant vs the singular Red Legion. Of course the Covenant have a massive number advantage, because you brought a whole empire against a single battalion within an empire, but if this was a war between the Covenant and the entire Cabal Empire, not just the Red Legion, then we have working debate. Due to a lot of the comments below, I'm led to believe that the Cabal would win against the Covenant, and I don't say that because I'm a Destiny fan. Knight_of_Alpha nailed it pretty well, I dont need to repeat what he said, but everyone shouldn't underestimate the Cabal's ability to analyze, grow, and adapt to conquer enemies. If the Covenant went after the Traveler, I bet my PS4 they would've ran straight in with their forces to claim their prize, after striking key positions like the tower. The Covenant arent really known for subtlety, not when it comes to all out war. But the Cabal didn't do that, not only did they collect surrounding technologies to improve their own forces, but they created a perfect attack plan to conquer the City and the Traveler. The Guardians didn't save shit, the only reason we still exist is because the Traveler woke up to save us one last time. Even aftet the whole story line, in the end the Guardians were powerless to stop Ghual, and the Traveler knew it. The Traveler didn't wake up for the Vex, didn't wake up for Oryx, didn't wake up for any previous disasters, but it woke up for the Cabal. I honestly think that at the start of the war, the Cabal would be somewhat taken by surprise by the new enemies and their tech, but could hold their own due to advanced training and tactics, not to mention that the common Legionnaire can easily best the common Grunt. The Covenant would lose in a prolonged conflict against the Cabal primarily due to their lack of change vs the Cabal's constant evolution within the course of a war.
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I'd go for the Cabal in general. Both groups are space empires who conquer and subjugate other races and are known to blow up/glass planets/solar systems for various reasons after first assaulting and destroying various ground and fleet based infrastructure with seemingly endless amounts of troops and resources. It's actually a bit difficult to compare who has more soldiers/ships/resources what have you as both are rather vague about that kind of logistical sense and the actual answer for those kind of questions is in reality however many there needs to be to tell the story. However there are some key differences between the two that puts favor towards the Red Legion. First and foremost, technology. The Covenant are specifically noted to imitative in their technology rather than innovative. Everything they create is based off a forerunner design and they do not make any attempts to understand or improve said technology as it goes against their religious teachings and ultimately their technology comes down to swords, shields, ships, and guns. If I recall correctly the UNSC is more advanced then the Covenant at the end of the war. In a direct comparison the Cabal are noted in game for being able to analyse and comprehend Vex tech, have sensors on every soldier to completely analyse the battlefield in real time, are able to analyse and reverse engineer Hive magic into a techno-logic base in order to capture the Traveller, [spoiler]Do the same to the Taken in order to steal light from the Traveller and empower Ghaul, and are implied to have built both larger then planet sized ships on their own.[/spoiler] That they make some of these improvements during the game implies an active use of science and engineering to improve their capacity that the Covenant simply do not have, and would be a major advantage in any conflict between the two. The other big advantage that the Cabal have is physiology. The main force of the covenant by pure numbers, if I recall correctly, are the Grunts. While the main force of the Cabal are...well, the Cabal. They are just stronger, tougher, and have less tendency to panic in general. I can't really imagine a scenario in which the Grunts could defeat Legionaries that did not involve the Grunts outnumbering the Cabal by at least an order of magnitude. While Elites and Brutes are probably of similar height to an average Legionary, the Legionaries seem, to me at least, to have more mass in general which would suggest more strength and endurance in general. Hunters certainly outclass legionaries in terms of power but that's rather easily matched by the various Colossi and Valus the Cabal have, who are all combat veterans in their own rights. The Cabal just in general more physically powerful. Then you have to take into consideration the Psions, who fill roles similar to the Jackals, Drones, and Engineers, are probably all around better at said roles do to the fact that they have psychic powers with the strongest of Psions capable of altering the orbits of heavenly bodies (Psion Flayers). I'm sure there's other things I'm forgetting but those two points certainly point to an overall Red Legion advantage.
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If they actually used the almighty hands down the Red Legion, especially if they already controlled the system. If not, and they met in a random system the covenant would win.
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The Red Legion are a miniscule force compared to the Covenant. The Covenant has them beat by ship numbers alone. This is like asking "who would win, the 1st Infantry Division or the entire Chinese military?". It doesn't matter that 1ID is better trained and equipped, they simply don't have the numbers or weapons necessary to fight off an endless horde of similarly-but-not-quite-as-well-equipped-and-trained soldiers and other military millieu
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Ghaul's whole operation depended on seizing the Guardians by the ball and cutting off their power. The Covenant doesn't have such a centralized target. On top of that, Cabal power seems to rely more than a little heavily on defensive emplacements, whereas the Covenant have some ridiculous space power, which makes assaults much easier.
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It depends. Do the covenant have the Arbiter from Halo 2? Cuz he can wreck shit.
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I just thought of a pretty great comparison in terms of strength for the Cabal and Covenant. Thresher gunships take, on average, 3 Drake shells to destroy, where-as a Covenant Phantom has regularly required at least 5 Scorpion shells to destroy. This either means the Thresher has significantly weaker armor, or the Drake is significantly more powerful than a Scorpion. Either way, it doesn't paint a good picture for the Red Legion versus the Covenant.
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I don't think you could say tbh. The Cabal is Destiny's version of the Covenant, and their tech seems on a similar level. Although, Covenant have a lot more variety when it comes to ground troops, vehicles amd air power etc. Also, their numbers were huge. This is a question that will never be answered sooooo haha you can only speculate
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Covenant would win..... Psions can't wear cybog helmets as backpacks.
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I say fair game. Red legion versus all of the covenant then covenant would cream them with a kraken. More then one grouo of cabal, covenant may have a good many difficulties. Considering each legion has a super weapon. So two superweapons, one that can blow up planets or maybe, this isnt lore just something I thought of, a legion called the blue legion who have a super weapon that freezes the sun causing the other planets to -blam!- up their orbit due to the frozen sun would have much more gravity and would eventually start forcing planets to collide. But if we mean gaul veraua the arbitor or something the arbitor would, as said bellow, "shove his energy sword so far up ghauls ass that the travler will give him the light"
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Ground wise....Covies. Ship to ship engagement....covies. Superweapons....Cabal It's really circumstantial. If the Cabal have enough time to deploy The Almighty, successfully defend it, and fire... maybe Cabal win. Unless the supernova disrupts the Covies ability to slipspace out of dodge... they'd just warp out. Though it only took one Guardian to stealthily neutralize The Almighty.... which Sangheili and Jiralhanae (probably butchered the spelling) are capable of. However if the Fleet (of Particular Justice) that took out Reach is present.... that would hasten the Cabal to nuke the hell out of the system. Without The Almighty present... I go with Covies.....do to sheer numbers. Though..we don't know too much about Cabal Ship shielding and Armor.... too make a truly accurate victor.
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The Arbitor would single handedly take down the entire Red Legion and shove his energy sword so far up Ghuals ass that the traveller would give him the light
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Cabal win. Stronger ships, better weapons, and physically advantageous troops win. Also, most Covie troops are poorly trained.
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The whole covenant fleet vs the small red legion battalion? Assuming calus doesn't exist in this universe, and Ghaul has full control over the cabal. The cabal probably are going to win, due to their more warlike status. Calus's flagship is a planet eater size vessel, and near impregnable.
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Halo 2 Jackal snipers. Nough' said.
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Shit... I mean the Covenant glass planets, but with an entire fleet next to the Almighty, would they ever get the chance? Then again, both have teleportation tech.
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The Red Legion itself? Yeah. Their equipment is generally better and their ships are pretty tough. Tougher than Covenant vessels, for sure. Might take a few Cabal ships for the bigger Covenant ships.
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Yeah because of a cop out ending.