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Edited by Vampire Nox:
8/31/2017 6:08:18 PM
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If Bungie were to separate PvE and PvP updates/Balances/Tweaks...
The separation of the two sides of the game should have been the standard from the very start of the "planning phase" for Destiny 2.
And if D2's "director" had any semblance of intelligence in his career field, he would have balanced this game like WoW or FFXIV did (since they balance PvE and PvP separately and successfully).
Bungie [i]should have[/i] "balanced" D2 heavily in the favor of PvE, allowing Players to keep their God-like power levels, Ability/Super cool-down's similar to D1Y1, and an even deeper level of Character customization. This keeps the fun weighted heavily in the Player's favor, and will retain nearly all of D2's PvE majority Player Base.
"But, Vampire... what about my beloved PvP?"
As much as I despise PvP as the cancer on MMORPG gaming that it is... I have thought of that.
You already enter a separate loading screen upon joining the PvP section of the game. In every MMORPG/Online RPG/etc., this is the case. Due to the nature of the PvP activities, there's no way to seamlessly enter from the PvE side to the PvP side. It requires segregation of certain areas of the servers, specifically coded for PvP.
That said, PvE God-like Abilities/Supers/Weapons would create horribad imbalances in PvP. But Bungie has definitely made it known that they know how to balance out PvP to keep Players on a more-or-less even playing field. Their huge mistake was thinking that PvE and PvP play the exact same way, and thus they have PvP "balancing" applying to PvE equally.
The solution is as I alluded to above.
Tune/tweak/balance the entirety of the game around PvE. Let the Players feel like Gods. Let them have deep, thorough Character customization like they've never seen in a Bungie game before (Bungie needs to channel the Spirit of Bethesda in this regard...). Let the Players [i]actually[/i] create "Legends".
But also have the coding for PvP "balance" apply, but the trigger for the coding to take effect happens only and solely when a Players manually and purposefully chooses to enter PvP.
As the PvP area/section of the Servers is loading up, apply the PvP balancing updates/tweaks at that time, and remove them when a Player "quits" out of PvP back into the regular PvE heart of the game. Thus; when a Player moves into the Crucible from the Director, as they're loading in to the PvP side of the servers, the PvP Updates and adjustments are applied to the entirety of their Character. The game mechanics in this segregated are would have already been adjusted for this separate section of game play, thus the load to update what is needed to make a Character "PvP ready" is low. Once the Player is done in the Crucible and "quits" out to the Director, then the small lines of code tell the game that the PvP no longer apply. The updates and adjustments are removed, and the Character goes back to the base God-like stats that the PvE side (in this, the whole core of the game) has been designed around.
This requires no more man-power or money on the part of Bungie, and even satisfies their self-described goal of having Player Equipment/Abilities/Supers uniform and usable across the entire breadth of the game.
Bungie at this point; would be able to make minor tweaks/updates to the PvE side to allow for Players to keep their God-like power, add in new DLC Quests/Weapons/Armor/etc. Bungie gets to keep the "Fun" in Destiny 2, and would greatly appease and satisfy even the most hard-core of MMORPG fanatics that may play Destiny 2.
But this would also allow them to heavily tweak/update those very same Weapons/Armor/Abilities/Ammo Drop Rates/etc. to allow them to keep their precious PvP "balance" intact as their E-sport dreams dictate.
This separation would also allow their vaunted Sandbox Team to not only keep an eye on PvP, but would allow them to address any glaring issues/bugs/glitches/weapon imbalances/ability imbalances without borking the PvE side of the game.
This is a solution that almost every MMORPG that also has optional PvP has done, and it does work beautifully. This is the way that Bungie should have tuned Destiny 2, and they would have if the Game Director didn't have his head stuffed so far inside of his own poop-chute...
Making this change though... Separating PvE and PvP, and allowing PvE Players to keep their God-like power and actually build Legends... this type of positive Player QoL benefit change would actually cause me to go out and buy three (3) copies of Destiny 2 tomorrow.
Hear that, Bungie?
If you make this change, I'll not only go from being a "Definitely not buying" to "Definitely buying multiple copies".
And I think many other Gamers would agree with me on this.
I'm definitely interested in Player thoughts on this.
Please, discuss.
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1 ReplyEdited by JHarv: 9/2/2017 5:59:17 AMD2 needs power scaling. If it takes 2 melees to kill a level 4 goblin when I'm level 4, and 2 melees to kill a level 4 goblin when I'm level 17, there's a problem. We need to get more powerful as level increases, and as light (power) increases. I'm not saying let us 1 shot everything and never die at higher levels, but power has to scale, otherwise gear is just there to change color and behave differently. When I equip end game raid gear, I want to feel it. I want bosses to start dying faster. I want to feel like I can take a few more hits.
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When Bungie seems to not want to fix something or is completely incompetent, always remember this quote: ''You see that mountain? You can go there.'' and remember it was one of the biggest lies ever told. I agree with everything in this post, but I'm honestly afraid Bungie will never implement these changes or might give us something similar to the quote above while simultaneously finding new ways to add microtransactions.
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Edited by TheShadow-cali: 9/1/2017 9:36:30 PMAll I know as a PvE gamer, If Bungie's sandbox pulls the same nonsense as they did with D1. PvE gamers are going to be spending hundreds and thousands of hours just to watch certain things they might enjoy become mediocre. I personally if I buy D2 don't want to spend that amount of time playing this game trying to acquire certain rewords just to watch them repeatedly get nerfed because of PvP gamers... Edit: Had to add this. I hope Bungie doesn't use the LFG as a cop out to nerf certain things like they did in Y1 again because Gamers cried about not having certain weapons.
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1 ReplyIf [i]anything[/i] is going to hurt D2's longevity, it's going to be that 2-primary system, and that's being reductive. Looking at the bigger picture, it's their adamant stubbornness in refusing to separate PvE and PvP. It's a fool's errand to adhere to this philosophy, especially if you're a AAA developer, and we're going to learn why.
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1 ReplyPvp is the reason that Destiny is a smoldering wreck, trials was the worst thing Bungie could have added Destiny. It was my hope that Bungie would separate pve from pvp, but I guess they haven't lost enough players yet. I like how you described pvp as a cancer.
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1 ReplyAgreed! It's at the top of my wants list for D2, but it probably won't happen.... the separation anxiety tag was pretty funny xD
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6 RepliesI like going into pvp and having my gear, abilities, and weapons work the same as they do in pve. I like this because Bungie told me I do. Bungie is perfect in every way and they know more about what we want than we do. They are not a company. More like a religious movement to me that designs perfect video games that are above any and all criticism.
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5 RepliesHit the nail on the head beautifully. Activision needs to stop pressuring and limiting Bungie on the things they are capable if doing. Bungie has made incredible games in the past and so has Activision. That being said however, neither one of these companies has any real MMORPG experience and that is the downfall of this franchise. Yes it's absolutely a first person shooter. Yet it has an element of RPG style gaming, leveling system for armor, guns, and your actual characters. You also level subclasses. This game is as much an MMORPG as it is a first person shooter, yet Bungie and Activision are so adamant to down play the RPG aspect that they have massively limited the games potential from what it truly is capable of being. They want us to be Legends and feel powerful, to protect the universe from the Darkness and to save civilization and mankind..... Yet every step of the way they have done nothing but nerf everything and slow down game play because they fear opening up and going full tilt with the RPG aspect of what this franchise could be.
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2 RepliesI have an unpleasant disposition towards pvp in destiny as a result of how it damages pve and the overall health of the game. I would be content to never speak or partake in the pvp side of the game and community happily if they would just separate them.
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1 ReplyEdited by A$AP Ancop: 9/1/2017 12:35:02 AMYeah is a no brainer, I hope Bungie balance the modes SEPARELTY this time I mean, that was basically the last nail in the coffin of The Division, the PVP community cried like no tommorrow because some PVE builds were very strong on the PVP, so there, no fun allowed anymore.
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PVE and PVP should have different stats, nerfs and buffs. I don't know where Bungie got the moronic idea of balancing around pvp only and adding this into pve. Not only does this make it extremely difficult to play pve but when fighting bosses you weapons will most likely be ineffective. Also op mentioned about having god like powers in pve, its not about having god like powers, its about not getting curbed stomped by a secret mini boss that you might run into in a dead sector......cause lol for you.
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Edited by blade329: 9/1/2017 2:55:16 PMBungie wants to have their cake and eat it to. They want a balanced competitive PvP game and still try and have an effective loot based space magic FPS. It doesn't work. Who wants to grind for mundane weak gear, have less space magic and play around with weak guns? Only the competitive PvP crowd.
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If bungie were to balance the two sides of the game separately, then it would be a good game that everyone loved and nobody would use their forums anymore. I've always felt exotics should work differently in PVP vs PVE... Like the really super awesome perk only works in PVE, but in PVP you get something that works like it, but not as good... There's not really a good argument for why you /should not/ feel overpowered in pve... If people didn't want to feel overpowered, they wouldn't be playing a game, they'd be learning a foreign language or researching in a library so they can go to med school or training their body to compete in an iron man triathlon. People play videogames so they can pretend to be special without the work... I'm sorry, I know that sounds like a harsh criticism, but I'm doing it too. The ideal that better players excel in these kinds of games is a myth, and best case scenario, you do play this game 24 7 and become the top ranking profresslional.... You gain... What? Out of that title?... Just saying. Let people have a fun game to play and be as op as they want in their pve power fantasies...
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Bump of the Undead.
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Bump.
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1 ReplyVery good post. Totally agree
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1 ReplyBut that would take time and effort. Why devote both of those two two distinct parts of the game when you can just tune the game for PvP and let PvE take care of itself? This is a studio that buffed auto rifles by 0.04% at one point, and then had a serious discussion about how that was meaningful in a TWAB. Don't have too much faith in them.
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I've been saying the same thing since the first game after watching pve get butchered to appease the pvp crowd. It would take very little effort as well to do, but they have it in their heads that both modes need to play the same, which is just stupid.
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Sort of like a lot of games that have that separation, mass effect series, halo series. You're essentially untouchable in PvE but in PvP it's a whole nother ballgame. Obviously making the PvE side of destiny a cakewalk like most games that have that story mode PvP mode would make PvE boring, but keeping that distinction is definitely needed.
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2 RepliesEdited by Smithy: 9/1/2017 1:18:09 AM[quote]But also have the coding for PvP "balance" apply, but the trigger for the coding to take effect happens only and solely when a Players manually and purposefully chooses to enter PvP.[/quote] [quote]This requires no more man-power or money on the part of Bungie and even satisfies their self-described goal of having Player Equipment/Abilities/Supers uniform and usable across the entire breadth of the game[/quote] These two lines are in direct contradiction. Such a system would have to be developed and is explicitly intended to ruin the uniformity of the sandbox. EDIT: I'm not wrong, whoever is manically downvoting me. The argument doesn't follow regardless if you agree with OP or not.
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They are separate.
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Edited by sss: 9/1/2017 11:39:14 PMBungie can not do because they are so incompetent. Luke should be dead for Destiny.
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Edited by badbrain1: 9/1/2017 9:11:49 PMPersonally i think its fine the way it is. Well at least from what iv played on beta d2. D1 it did had issues mid phase of it lifetime for pve but eventually they have resolved this issue due to them tweeking ai settings on weapons and supers. Though now it became easy mode. Now with d2 it is in between (based off my perspective in playing beta). Red bar health and shielded red bar health enemies are easy to kill. Yellow bar not too difficult to knock out. especially if you work as a team. Now bosses i can see them as bullet sponge but the whole point is so it artificially shows difficulty. The longer the fight prolong. The higher chance of mistakes being made and thus causing wipes. Wow pretty much does the same thing( high health) plus more. They use other mechanics to artificially make the game difficult. moves that forces player to move which could delay and slow down dps + adds(ff14 also does this). Destiny does it differently spongy boss(This part isnt enough cause we dont melee bosses so it would make the fight too easy) and then we we adds that come in at certain % to prolong the fight. Forcing us to attack them before boss. All mmo follow this similar format (adds greater than boss).This part i dont have issues with. If anything my main concern is ammo economy for power ammo.
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1 ReplyThey will never do it. I don't think so at least. Complain about it all you want. They're philosophy on this is as hard as diamond. We've complained for THREE years and they won't budge. The closest we've gotten is our weapons PVE damage being increased. Which was rather nice for the record. On another note, I do agree. But truth be told, any nerf PVP has gotten PVE has never been an actual problem, just an nuisance that eventually gets forgotten anyway. The PVE players have always adapted. When gjhallarhorn was no longer a crutch. When special ammo inventories were reduced, when shotguns were nerfed constantly. When grenades were weak as shit. They've never been a problem that I've stopped playing for, just annoyed. Hey Vampire, personal question, are you a fan of the game? I've seen you post on the forums that you'd never play again, but you always end up showing up again. Do you just lurk around the forums or do you enjoy the game and franchise?
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1 Replyi'm all for separating the two, but pve should be difficult to master just as pvp is. in D1 when you're max light you can just run though all activities with ease, which can still be fun but just feels less rewarding imo.
