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Edited by Joyaboi:
8/27/2017 3:07:21 PM
164
Is Destiny 2 just an expansion?
[spoiler]*A Wild Gringo has appeared*[/spoiler]
So I've been kind of quiet about this but it has been kind of eating away at me so I figured I'll write it, get 2 replies, 3 likes, and my conscience will be settled.
Also I am certainly biased on this source. I wasted... too much time on D1 and I preordered D2. I have a big stake in this game being good, plus the "I told you so" rights. Take what I say with a grain of salt, however I do like to look at things logically and I prefer to make arguments based on facts or reasonable speculation instead of half a sentence explaining in no uncertain terms that my opinion is better than yours. With that out of the way...
Countless times I have heard criticism against Destiny 2. Plenty of it is fair (like the new weapon system, locked loadouts, 4v4 pvp, etc.) but the criticism I am talking about is, as you could guess, "Destiny 2 looks just like DLC". I am a bit confused by this, and it certainly doesn't help when people respond with "that is what a sequel is supposed to look like." Destiny 2 could come out as an awful game for all I know, but I am just here to explain why Destiny 2 isn't deserving of the Destiny 1.5 moniker.
Firstly Destiny 2 had to be a sequel. They literally couldn't have made it DLC to the original game. Aside from the fundamental changes that couldn't work in D1, the engine couldn't handle it. The Tiger Engine for D1 was designed with lastgen consoles in mind. The last expansion literally couldn't be put on the older consoles. It probably couldn't support another new zone, let alone 4 and everything else. It had to be a separate game, but most people with a brain and access to google could figure that so I'm not gonna harp on it any more.
The big reason that I see people use to justify "Destiny 1.5" is that not enough was changed. There is still a golden gun super, there is still the Taken, the gunplay is still fantastic etc. Just look at this [url=https://youtu.be/w1wW2Kv1AhA]video[/url] to see what I mean. This also dumbfounds me though. It is as if the guy who made it went "look! There are launchers in both games! They're practically the same thing!" And this is where I introduce the "Halo Method".
[i]The Halo Method[/i] is very simple. If you criticize a sequel for being too similar, could that criticism also apply to the original Halo trilogy? If so then it is invalid. Take enemy races. I heard complaints that Destiny 2 won't be adding new enemy factions but just revamping the old ones. But Halo did that. In Halo CE, 2 and 3 the only enemy factions (that are different gameplay wise) are the Covenant, The Flood, and Sentinels (and Humans for 1 mission). This never changes. Hell Halo 2 didn't add a single new enemy type to the Flood. And yet I never heard anybody complain about Halo 3's lack of new enemy factions. Did anybody play the mission "Covenant" in Halo 3 and go "aww man Bungie just reskined Silent Cartographer". No because people would call you an idiot. But I hear people say "aww man Nessus is just a reskin of Venus". Why? Because it has forests and Vex of course. Completely ignoring that those are literally the only 2 similarities.
I can only chalk this up to people simply wanting to dislike Destiny 2 because it is a hip thing to do and they don't want to go through the effort of trying to find legitimate issues like those mentioned prior.
If you have a good, well thought out reason as to why Destiny 2 isn't what a sequel should be, I'd be more than happy to hear it. Both sides please be civil and if you see some idiot with half a sentence and as much logic as Scientology, just mute them and move on. Commenting only encourages them.
Thanks for reading.
[b]Tl;dr[/b] read the paragraph starting with [i]The Halo Method[/i]
[spoiler]If some smart ass in the comments responds with half a sentence like I just previously condemned, please simply comment to them [quote]"Have you ever stopped to watch a bluebird drop from a tree, and take to the air? Me neither. Have you ever stopped to finish out a rhyme but the right words just weren't there? Meat Cleaver"[/quote][/spoiler]
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The definition of the word "sequel" is not up for debate. No matter what any of the morons on this forum say destiny 2 is a sequel. It is destiny 2. It is a sequel to destiny 1. Doesn't matter if it's the shittiest game ever made or the best game ever made. Your opinion doesn't matter. It's a sequel.
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Edited by FearFactory2904: 8/30/2017 2:25:21 AMDestiny 2 is everything I would have expected out of a Destiny 1 expansion, but it is the sequel whether we like it or not. I have had to re-calibrate my expectations and accept that what I would expect to be a free update is a paid expansion here and what I expect to be an expansion is considered a sequel. Unfortunately this means I will probably never see what I hoped for in a Destiny sequel so instead I will sit with bungie on the sidelines and watch as Destiny grows as stale and someone else comes along puts out something equivalent to what Destiny 2 should have been. Maybe it will be Anthem, or maybe something else.
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15 RepliesEdited by blade329: 8/27/2017 7:03:59 PMMy opinions are formed solely on the Beta. Call me crazy, but I had high expectations for this game. I expected much more than a Call of Duty type rehash/reskin. I sat down with the Beta and felt completely let down. I was expecting innovation, advancement, and something different. Instead, I get a carbon copy of what I already had, only weaker. I'm a big PvP guy. I sunk a lot of hours into D1 and I loved it, despite its faults. The maps looked the same, movement was the same (only slower), the guns felt the same (only weaker), etc. Not only did this seem like a DLC, they even gave me less choices than I had before. I wanted to see vehicles, mass battles, more gear options, destructible environment, etc. For crying out loud, my guardian can't even lie prone like every other freaking shooter on the market. Not only does this feel like a DLC, but a lackluster one to boot. I'm sure I'll get flamed by the fan boys, but I won't be able to respond......because the freaking notification on this site and app DON'T WORK!!!!!!
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2 Replies[quote]Your wall of text.[/quote] I can't read that much text, and I also cannot answer your question. However, I will +1 you for your salty title.
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Destiny 1 is great. Destiny 2 will be great. The end.
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4 RepliesEdited by Barrierr-: 8/29/2017 12:25:02 PMWith returning armor/weapons & reskins it seems that way. All of our gear is apparently lost but somehow Hardlight, HotPF, Feedback Fence, & lots of others are returning? Lazy af Bungie
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22 Replies[quote]The Halo Method is very simple. If you criticize a sequel for being too similar, could that criticism also apply to the original Halo trilogy? If so then it is invalid. Take enemy races. I heard complaints that Destiny 2 won't be adding new enemy factions but just revamping the old ones. But Halo did that. In Halo CE, 2 and 3 the only enemy factions (that are different gameplay wise) are the Covenant, The Flood, and Sentinels (and Humans for 1 mission). This never changes. Hell Halo 2 didn't add a single new enemy type to the Flood. And yet I never heard anybody complain about Halo 3's lack of new enemy factions. Did anybody play the mission "Covenant" in Halo 3 and go "aww man Bungie just reskined Silent Cartographer". No because people would call you an idiot. But I hear people say "aww man Nessus is just a reskin of Venus". Why? Because it has forests and Vex of course. Completely ignoring that those are literally the only 2 similarities.[/quote] You want to know what's wrong with all this compared to Destiny? 1- Halo Trilogy actually had a complete story from when MC was a child all the way up to him being an adult. You know everything about him, where he came from, where he has been, and where he is now. In fact you know all about the Covenant, the Flood, the sentinels, the Halo. the history was well known. Destiny Vanilla? The story was chopped up a year before the game was released and since then this company has been winging it with no consistency that the story does not tie into the previous. In fact Gamers barely know anything from where the Guardians come from, where we been or have any sense of direction where you are going. Hell, it's a simple thing that most know about MC... But do any of you know how much your guardian weighs? Do any of you know the story behind the EXO Stranger? Do any of you really know the Traveler. I mean his full story? In 3 years far as I know Halo had all that coved... 2- #1 ties into all this. When playing Halo the only time you ever deal with the enemy is in Firefight and the Campaign. You are not dealing with the enemy in every aspect of the game. Destiny- You deal with the enemy in the Missions, Quest, Bounties, Patrol, Raids, Strikes, Nightfall, Heroic. You deal with them in this entire game that things like the Taken you had to see them in Everything that was way over done In D1. Halo you didn't have to interact with the enemy in everything in the game and far as I remember firefight you only dealt with the Covenant. You didn't have a PvE aspect of the game like Destiny. There is a HUGE difference when it comes to having to deal with the enemy in Halo compared to Destiny when it comes to a reskin enemy. So naturally gamers are going to complain about the reskin enemy like the Taken that flooded everything in this entire game for an entire year and if I'm correct they will be in D2. 3- The lack of actually exploring this games potential is an issue with this company especially knowing this isn't just a PvP or PvE game. Since Vanilla a Guardian has become a shadow of it's former self that reskin is being used a lot more in the 3 years that is has been out compared to Halo that didn't have a PvE aspect of a game that was based off of an actual story that was completed.
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14 Repliesif they wanted it to be seen as a new game they would have made or got a new engine and remade it from the ground up so it looks like 2017 or 2018 graphics. they would have got it at 60fps and used dedicated servers. they chose to do none of these things. the graphics are slightly enhanced from those in 2014 but not much. so in effect it is an expansion of the base game and code they used 3 years ago. it wont look anything like as good or new as cod WW2 or even battlfield 1 which has been out for ages. both these games do run at 60fps and have dedicated servers. if you wanted to see what 2017 graphics should be like check out anthem or metro from e3 so whatever way you paint it its an expansion on the base game except its a diffrent client you start up doesnt mean it wont be fun but its a poor and cheapskate offering from one of the biggest companies in gaming
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1 ReplyEdited by Lebkazoo: 8/28/2017 11:51:51 PMHere's the thing, I think that a sequel should either be a continuation of the story, or a different story with the same engine. For example, Paper Mario to Paper mario Tyd. Very similar games, but there's enough difference, that it's still completely fun and unique, but doesn't lose it's original feeling. Destiny 2 just feels like a nerfed D1... Nothing new, we're just in a weaker, slower, mute guardian. It does feel like an expansion, but I guess we can't judge until it comes out.
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41 RepliesIt looks like a DLC because the cabal story/raid was meant to be a d1 DLC But regardless, it also looks like a dlc because there arent any new things. Same subclasses (except Sentinel, Dawnblade is a 1.5 sunsinger), a lot of the same exotics and not doing anything new except the lost sectors
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1 ReplyI don't give a F&;k, its new content and I'm willing to play and have again. Can't wait for new weapons, new armor, new maps, new crucible, new new new. DLC, game, enemies IDGAF. This is gonna be fun for me and that's all I care about.
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11 RepliesI can't agree with almost anything you stated in the Halo Method paragraph. From Combat Evolved to Halo 3, you don't see many new enemy factions, but you do see massive graphical, gameplay, and combat/death/weapon animation changes to the point where the game still retains it's original feeling, but has evolved drastically from its predecessor. If I showed you two videos, side by side, of someone shooting a Vex with a Scout Rifle and I told you that one video was from Destiny 1 and the other is from Destiny 2, it would most likely take you several seconds to differentiate the two. Halo: CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 are all very similar in terms of enemies and weapons; although gameplay modifications, modernized enemy renditions, etc. made every Bungie Halo feel like an almost new experience every time. Destiny 2 looks almost like a [i]carbon copy[/i] of Destiny 1, and this is coming from someone who played Destiny 1 on the Xbox 360, Xbox One a few years later and tried the Destiny 2 beta as well. People on the Destiny forums like Destiny and want to see it succeed, or else they wouldn't be here (or they're trolls.) I can very easily see why people dislike Destiny 2's graphics - because they look just like Destiny 1's! It's irrefutable that it looks like almost nothing new has been changed or added in terms of enemy design.
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2 RepliesDestiny's part of the ever rolling out of the Ten years of All Things Destiny, it has to its a franchise after all. That being said Patrols are said on YouTube to be twice as large. We are able to take part in ship fights. We are able to take part in Tank fights. There is 4 completely different planets. There is no sign of the old Planets or old maps. There's a completely new campaign. All our gear is taken away from us and we are given completely new weapons and Armour. There's two new currency's in the game, There is really a lot of new stuff to look forward too. The HUD is completely reworked including all new supers, go watch Destiny 2 YouTube's please.
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Edited by Ahhsenberg: 8/28/2017 5:20:54 PMI'm tired of people comparing Destiny to Halo. Stop it. Well, at least stop with the PvE comparison. Destiny is a much larger PvE platform. Halo has a linear campaign where you will probably only play it through a few times(if at all). Halo is mostly about PvP. Meanwhile, Destiny has you playing through PvE content like a mad man. For THREE YEARS we have been mostly involving ourselves in PvE with the SAME enemies(slightly altered in DLC). Now, with Destiny 2, we get the same exact treatment. Oh, sorry, I forgot about the addition of Cabal dogs. ^_^ Right. Of course times have changed. Destiny has changed to focus more on PvP and is seemingly trying to steer the ship towards more of a balance between PvP and PvE in terms of playability. I imagine that's why the Halo comparisons are starting to pop up more. However, that doesn't mean you can start comparing all the areas of the game with each other - holding them to the same standards. Destiny PvE is an entirely different animal than Halo's. Even IF they're becoming closer to each other in terms of PvP, it's not even close with PvE. Maybe if there was an entirely new threat to deal with rather than the same old enemies, people wouldn't be calling Destiny 2 an expansion. Maybe if there weren't the same basic abilities and gameplay mechanics, or at least having greater improvements to them rather than watering them down, people wouldn't be calling Destiny 2 an expansion. Maybe if Destiny started out using more of a Halo formula in terms of PvE/PvP playability things would be entirely different. However, things are what they are. People are justified with calling Destiny 2 a DLC in terms of PvE. Destiny 2 seems to be VERY similar to a Destiny 1 expansion. The excuse of having a similar universe, lore reasoning, or unfairly comparing other games is bullshit. We all know that there could've been a lot more done to improve Destiny 2 from the lackluster/rushed experience of Destiny 1. Maybe PvP is improved and PvE has quality of life improvements/POSSIBLY a better story, but it's frankly not good enough. More of the same content with a few changes aren't enough to impress me for a sequel to Destiny. Maybe it's enough for CoD or Halo, but those are run of the mill FPS games. We should expect more from a game like Destiny. But hey, whatever. I'll try the game out and go from there. I'm sure it will be what I'm thinking it will be, regardless of the "but it's an old Beta build", but I give everything a final chance. We'll see. Hopefully Destiny 2 will offer more in time.
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This is all really well said. Big bump from me.
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It comes down to this....people are going to complain if there is no change, complain if there is too little change, and complain if there is too much change. No matter what people will find something to complain about. Destiny 2 is what I expect from a true sequel. It keeps the game familiar with many ties to the original game, while adding new story lines and content. I didn't want a completely new game and story, if we got that then it wouldn't really be Destiny 2 now would it? Just my opinion and I know not everyone shares it. But luckily most of my time is spent playing with my clan that I have been with for 3 years and there is no toxicity there.
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2 Replies2nd grade was just an expansion of 1st grade. I had to pay another year of taxes just so my kids could attend the next grade that was locked behind a pay wall.
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Through all 3 games of mass effect it was always really just the same enemies. Reapers and criminals. The story was all one flowing story. That's how sequels work. I mean in essence the thing that makes it a new game and not a dlc is that it's for a different base system. The programming for D1 doesn't work for what we get in D2, simple as that. I simply don't get the argument that it's a dlc, it's not. The core programming has been changed. I mean if it was just look, enemies, and a continues story that's the argument that it's just a dlc the same thing can be said for any sequel.
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Well I will use the typical fanboy (which I'm not) response, this isn't Halo. This is a loot based shooter, Halo while it has story and horde mode is more about the competitive mode than Destiny. Now that that's out of the way, I just don't want them to reuse any assets. I don't care about enemies, they can spin them how they want. It's not a reboot, D1 wasn't some horrible dream sequence. There has to be continuity between games so the same enemies is to be expected. I just don't want to see the same weapons and gear from D1 in D2. Problem is that Bungie likes to reuse assets. There have already been 2 sightings of D1 exotics in D2 game play releases. If it's actually true then the 1.5 kind of applies, at least for me. It's a new game so it needs all new loot, otherwise it would feel like an expansion and not a new game. This game is all about the quest for loot and showing it off.
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After reading through a lot of the replies, it struck me that most of the arguments about it being a DLC or Destiny 1.5 could be invalidated with 1 word added to the title: Destiny episode 2
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2 RepliesD2 should be a text adventure game.
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Good, valid points :) 1 thing that has baffeled me through all of this BS about D2, is that the 2 arguments; reskinned contents/DLC and stupid weapon systems/mechanics has been presented by the same guys.... How can anyone complain about too much change and too little change in the same debate? As you point out, it's a sequel. I expect things to feel like you play the same game (yeah, nay-sayers, it's the same game still) I wonder what the DLC-people really want.. Do they want a completely new game where nothing is the same, where the only similarity is that you stil have a hunter/wl/titan? Too me, the whole (stupid) debate makes me think that they would complain that Forza still has cars and they expect flying saucers. I for one, woul be kinda pissed if they did like in Farcry.... Let's make D2 about the time before the human race got technology, where we all just go around about our business with a pointy stick in our hand :)
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Honestly, no. The game was rehauled entirely and looks more complete Vanilla than D1 did. Then again, half the community gets triggered at anything, look at the subclass leaks and you'll see exactly what I mean.
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It's a sequel, it has a 2 in the name, how do people not get that.
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People want change and yet when change occurs people hate it (4v4 and two primaries etc). When things stay the same (races, weapon types) people complain that nothing has changed. People are so indecisive and conflicted that you need to make a purchase and decision based on whether you will enjoy the game. Sequels are meant to "expand" on the previous title and were expansion packs before we saw the rise of DLC in the gaming world. Call of duty 1 and 2 were effectively the same game with new maps and graphics but because as a community Dlc didn't exist these were the expansions. So maybe destiny 2 is similar to d1 but is that a bad thing? That's your choice
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@Mustachio is the hero we need right now
