I'm disappointed Bungie.
This article on the clan limit for Destiny 2 is heartbreaking for my clan, Ethereal Ravens, we had expected bigger and better with the upcoming game but we're still stunted in our growth because of the clan cap choice. While it hasn't been revealed how the activity loot table will work let me break it down why this clan limit with the loot table will destroy what we have built.
Take any clan with multiple divisions, from Dames of Destiny to Ethereal Ravens, and look at what we're facing in nearly all of the scenarios I can imagine.
[b]Clan Limit[/b]
The limit itself is restricting and has been since the launch of Destiny which has caused large clans to make separate groups, networking them together with the Alliance feature which is nothing more than a drop down menu. Combine the limit with the fact that both PS4 and Xbone take up equal space, which means you can really only have 50 members on each console. With D2 coming PC people are going to take even more space if the logistics work the same.
This clan limitation is damaging right now. I myself sit in Ethereal Ravens Staff while I have members in five other divisions, so I don't even see who's online in the very clan I created. All because of this cap. Going into D2 this is going to be a nightmare because the Alliance option is being taken away, how will I navigate between the divisions? Will I even be able to maintain Founder status for all six divisions of Ethereal Ravens? Do I have to choose one of my staff to transfer ownership to? This limitation will only become more suffocating.
[b]Clan Limit + Loot Table [Situation 1][/b]
While I have no idea how the loot table will actually work in D2 I'm taking the liberty of creating assumptions. Let's assume that six of my members, two from three different divisions of Azure Crimson and Muave, are completing the raid. Does the loot table recognize the completion just for those two in the Azure division so they have access to the loot? Would everyone else in the Azure division have access to the same loot despite not having the completion? This would turn the more active players, raidaholics as I call them, the carriers of their division which can create animosity towards the less active people.
[b]Clan Limit + Loot Table [Situation 2][/b]
Let's take another perspective on the loot table. Let's say that the six from different divisions get nothing at all from the loot table because they're not in the same "clan", or division. This means that the work they put in for the completion equals nothing and makes the game a moot point. Does the fireteam have to be from the same "clan"/division for loot? If so this means I have to reorganize the entire structure of my clan.
Right now the divisions are set up by location to completely omit skill and activity to avoid elitism. Do I now have to pick who goes where? Half being raidaholics the other half members who don't have that much time to game? Or do I shove all the high activity players together and leave the low activity players to suffer and miss out? With this you are forcing me to put a quality check on each player and say "you're not good enough, sorry. Don't be married and have kids or pursue outside dreams and interests".
[b]Clan Limit + Loot Table [Situation 3][/b]
The last idea I came up with since the release of the article is this, rotation. Every week my staff and I would have to coordinate who gets to be in the "raid clan", a division that rotates people in and out for access to the loot table once completions are obtained. There are so many reasons this won't work but it all boils down to a logistical nightmare.
[b]Clan Limit + Guided Games[/b]
While we're excited for the Guided Games, to help those in need which is what we do, we're also stressing. To invite someone to the clan in-game because they had a great time with us is a wonderful idea, but what if the division the new person is supposed to be in isn't present in the fireteam? That means the new recruit has to wait for someone else from the right division to come on and invite them. If no one is available that means we potentially lose that person and stunts our growth even more.
[b]I want to know why.[/b]
Why is there a limit on clans to begin with? The Bungie Spotlight has been held by so many massive clans that you know we're out here with multiple divisions. To say its for the "tactical chatter" and "maintaining the family feel" are the flimsiest reasons ever created. You are tearing my family apart, a family that has been through so much together, a family that has been to each other's houses, graduations, and roomed together at conventions.
I want to know why this choice was made. Is it a programming issue? Can the back end of the game not handle more than 100 people for an in-game clan list? This wouldn't make sense to me considering my friends list can populate with 900+ people on my PSN friends list. Is it a logistical issue? This doesn't make sense either since all of the game coding is done in-house and you know the sandbox's every grain of sand.
[i][b]Show me the game breaking code that forces the clan limit.[/b][/i] A string that breaks the game irreversibly should be the only reason the clan limit exists to begin with. That is the only reason, any others are merely excuses.
Bungie, do not make me split up my family by skill, do not make me choose who stays and who goes, do not force me to decide who I will take into D2 with me. We have laughed in the greatest times together, have dried each others' tears in the worst of times. We even have two Guardians who met only because of this game and are planning their own Destiny themed wedding. We are global, that cannot be ignored.
Please do not make me abandon or cast anyone aside. Please do not make me choose who are my brothers and sisters, to hand pick out of the people who call me Momma Kole for who goes with me into D2 exploration and raids.
[b]Solution[/b]
Abolish the clan limit, please. If that is too tall of order at least raise the limit to a thousand players. Not only could my divisions collapse back to the original Ethereal Ravens clan but it would also solve every single situation I've presented.
Please tell me why I'm standing here with my people staring into the Void and left wondering if we even have a future together as a family.
[u][b]-EDIT-[/b][/u]
There's been a numerous amount of replies stating that 100 people or less is fine and that a clan larger than that is impersonal and looses the family feel. That's not how most of the larger clans work. We have a Discord server with several channels for Raids, Trials, Crucible, and Destiny in general, one of our members can reach out to see who's online or doing what, to ask for help if they need something.
Not everyone works an 8-5 job that's a set schedule, nor does everyone have a set time they're online playing. People have irregular job hours, college work, a spouse, kids, projects, and a myriad of other things than gaming. Life gets in the way, everyone knows that.
Members of massive clans have the ability to reach out and see who's online, to get help when they have a free moment to raid, play Crucible, or complete a quest that requires other people. This freedom is why these massive clans exist. To have to rely on five other people to be on, or even twenty to be active, is stifling to any player. What if one of your five quits the game? Now you have to find someone new or hit LFG, the latter no one likes to do.
For those that say massive clans are toxic, full of cliques, or are impersonal, I apologize you had an unsavory experience, but not all communities are like that. I hope you can find a better home soon, and before D2 drops.
-
I think that your problem has less to do with an unlimited number cap, and more to do with the need for a workable interface. As a clan director, you need the ability to control and manage your auxiliary groups, see which of your members are online, and (I imagine) have the ability to make any and all executive decisions for your group. That, is completely understandable. However, there are plenty of features with D2 that we still do not know about, and some considerations that should be made, especially given the size of your group. So let's try to clear some of this up. [b][u]Disclaimer[/u][/b]:[i] I'm not saying that all of this couldn't be avoided by simply making the group cap unlimited[/i]. Also keep in mind that any of what I say below contains equal amounts of conjecture when relating to D2. [b]We don't know the full story with what comes with D2 yet[/b]. All of what I'm posting below, and commenting on, is how to approach this situation with the tools that you have available here on Bnet. Historically, when groups of players the size of what you are leading come together, they usually leave this website and manage themselves autonomously. You and your group are likely a minority given your size. This system is set up to function for smaller groups of people and the numerous clans that they are a part of. It's also important to remember that we've never had the features available to us that are present now, and moving into D2. But, given the current state of things, you're likely going to have to work with what you've got. At least for a little while. [quote]The limit itself is restricting and has been since the launch of Destiny which has caused large clans to make separate groups, networking them together with the Alliance feature which is nothing more than a drop down menu. Combine the limit with the fact that both PS4 and Xbone take up equal space, which means you can really only have 50 members on each console. With D2 coming PC people are going to take even more space if the logistics work the same.[/quote] This is a good point. It's very limiting to have to separate out everyone, and that a single clan's cap is affected by members joining on different platforms. With that being said, a possible fix for this is easy. What you need to establish is a home group for all of your clan members to join. Here, everyone that is a part of the Ethereal Ravens can interact and post about anything. Past that, what you need to do is have your separate "clan groups" split by the platform they play on. Because rewards have never been, and highly likely will not be shared across platforms with the upcoming loot bonuses, it is critical that you pair like-groups of players together for clan memberships. An example of this would be PSN players complete a raid as clan "N", XBL and PC players that are a part of clan N are not going to get those downstream rewards, only the PSN players will. There is no reason to have any other members other than PSN players as a part of clan N. Group your clan members accordingly. [quote]Going into D2 this is going to be a nightmare because the Alliance option is being taken away, how will I navigate between the divisions? Will I even be able to maintain Founder status for all six divisions of Ethereal Ravens?[/quote] I am unsure if we definitively know that the alliance option will be erased. If that has been said previously, consider me unaware, but if Bungie has not outright said it will be eliminated, hang tight. You will be able to maintain founder status of all of your groups as long as you have created each one of them, here on Bnet. That means that you will be in control for when your moment to push the button on the D2 clan transition arrives. You will not have to delegate any of this responsibility to any other member of the Ethereal Ravens. [quote][b]Clan Limit + Loot Table [Situation 1][/b][/quote] This one I am not going to touch too much on. Why? Because we simply do not have enough information on these mechanics yet to warrant worrying about downstream loot. Here is what is important to know: Everyone who directly participates in an activity is still going to get loot. *[i]More than likely[/i]: Everyone who is a part of a clan that has members complete a raid, guided game, or any other selected activity, is going to get some kind of indirect, downstream reward. This could be based on how active individual members are within a clan. It could simply be that rewards are given to everyone just for being a part of that clan. [b][i]We don't know[/i][/b]. We can assume that downstream loot will be rewarded to those on the same platform only. So even if all of your clan members were in one unit, they will not all be rewarded. [quote][b]Clan Limit + Guided Games[/b] but what if the division the new person is supposed to be in isn't present in the fireteam? That means the new recruit has to wait for someone else from the right division to come on and invite them. If no one is available that means we potentially lose that person and stunts are growth even more.[/quote] Although I agree that this could be more seamless and refined, this has a really easy solution. Tell whoever the new recruit is to join your specific group on Bnet. I'm almost willing to bet that they have a mobile device or computer in very close proximity to them to be able to manually complete this task. Yes, it's more work than it needs to be. But, if I had to guess, any player who would be hesitant to join the Ethereal Ravens because they didn't receive an in-game invite, is likely not a player you want in your clan anyway. [quote][b]I want to know why.[/b] Why is there a limit on clans to begin with? To say its for the "tactical chatter" and "maintaining the family feel" are the flimsiest reasons ever created.[/quote] Again, here is where you have to keep in mind that your group is likely a minority due to its size. What the clan system caters to is much smaller, an amount that is closer to an actual "family-size", not the massive unit that you oversee. It is more probable that you are going to play with the same 10-20 people (or less) consistently, than all 100+ players that might inhabit a larger clan. Again, this is purely insight, not an imposed structure of how this system should be. [quote][b]Solution[/b][/quote] 1.) Own each auxiliary group of the Ethereal Ravens that needs to be created, or is currently in existence. This makes you the founder, you will have direct control over these groups. 2.) Make sure that all of your members are connected in one single group, while individual platforms are split into their respective clans. 3.) Hold onto your butt until we have more information, but do not stop posting and voicing your opinion on the games. Without that voice, these games are not refined into what works best for everyone. I truly hope you end up with the solution that your are looking for, and are able to make your group function the way you want it to. -JBX