Great listen guys and gal!! Congrats on 50!! I'm with RWG. The speculative complaints and bashing have befuddled me. I can sort of see how a person could make negative assumptions based on what we've seen. I myself have reservations on the 4v4 but am willing to see how things play out in the beta. I haven't seen too many people mention this but Bungie has done a couple of things to prep us for some of D2 changes. - Special Ammo Economy. It's pretty clear now that the change to special ammo was to give us a glimpse of what the power ammo economy will be like in D2. - Delayed Mini-map. The delayed map is apparent in D2 even when coming out of ADS. - Abrupt Damage Drop off. We've seen this with both HC and Shotguns and it's clear this idea came from what they're doing in D2 These are the 3 that stick out the most for me but I'm certain that there are more. I've always felt that the way PVP has panned out in D1 was kind of 'by accident'. They didn't intend for PVP to be as popular when Destiny was released and didn't put much development into it other that for it to be a testing ground for your loadouts. Once it gained popularity and people started screaming for balance is where the trouble started. The weapons used in early Crucible were not tuned for 200 Hp guardians even with the differences with how damage was calculated in PVP vs PVE. They were tuned for enemies with thousands (millions) of health points. From that point alone we would never achieve any form of balance without nerfing. They caused their own demise in that regards by not separating balance in a more abrupt was from the start. Special weapons were always meant to be powerful. It's clear that Bungie wanted to keep that power and the only way to do that with the weapon tier model is to either nerf OR limit use. When they did both it was to limit effectiveness (nerf) or limit use (ammo eco). The change in weapon tiers in D2 makes it even more clear to me that they want those weapons to remain powerful so they opted for a tiered system with a built in ammo economy and it looks like the ecolomy is different in PVE and PVP. It looks like their separating the modes just enough to balance PVP properly without have drastic (or any maybe) effects on PVE. We can only hope for some more transparency in to these things as the next months go by.