The best short answer is: by being adults who take responsibility for how we act and how we treat these kids. It's not about coddling or teaching them, it's about us holding up our end of the bargain, even if they aren't. Remember, this topic is about fixing the problem, and if you don't want it to improve, you're in the wrong place. There's a TL;DR for the method I suggest at the bottom, but this method will lead to not only an improved individual raid, but a better kid and community:
Talk to them.
Tell them what the problem is, and ask them to focus and stop talking about the needless stuff.
If they argue and say that other people are chatting about complete BS too, you can observe that the other people are not messing up in the game. But do so kindly, these are KIDS. Make SURE that you give them a chance to adjust their playing by talking to them.
If they ultimately can't do it (adjust their talking or complete the raid requirements), ASK them to leave the fireteam. DO NOT kick them without talking to them. If they refuse or start to cry, explain the reason why you're asking them to leave, KINDLY again, and then ask them again to leave. If they refuse again, then TELL them that you are going to remove them so that people can continue, and only then should you kick them.
You may wish to give them advice on where to find a good guide for that section of the raid so that next time they try they can do better, or to look for someone who knows how to carry instead of a regular raid group. Other forms of encouragement are also a good idea, and not only will they help the child, but they'll leave YOUR fireteam with a much better sense of morale for completing the raid than having just messed up a child.
If you're not a kid, you're an adult (even if you're a YOUNG adult), and you should behave like one where a kid is concerned. IF we keep treating them like crap, then that's the future of our community. If we treat them with respect, they will LEARN respect, both for the game and for their fellow players. And they will LEARN to focus and communicate better. Especially the ones who are taught kindly, because there are no excuses that they can make for themselves when you are honest with them.
If you kick a child without talking to them, they will blame you for their failures, and they wont improve. And neither will our community. So if you complain about our LFG system, THIS is where we start to make a change, by having respect for CHILDREN. Remember, this is a video game, and it's NOT worth the self esteem and emotional wellbeing of a child.
There are also good kids that play this game and it's not fair to the ones who can make it through WotM 390 to put them in the same camp as the ones who don't stop talking.
BTW, I'm 26, so this isn't a kid posting because he's upset, this is a younger brother with three AWESOME older brothers that have taught me what it means to play inclusively and kindly.
TL;DR Treat children with respect and talk to them kindly about what is going on and the situation will improve. Don't do anything without talking to them about it first, including kicking them. It's our responsibility as adults who have made the choice to accept them into our fireteams, and the best way for them to learn. And if you don't want to fix the problem... you're in the wrong topic.
Edit: It's not our responsibility to teach kids manners, but that's not what this is doing, it's teaching them the consequences of misbehaving. But It IS our responsibility, having accepted children into our fireteams, to behave like mature adults. OUR MATURITY, OUR RESPONSIBILITY is what this topic is about.
We, as adults, should be behaving with more maturity than that. Because we're NOT children. And THAT'S the point here. If the problem is going to be fixed (which is why the topic is even here, so what did people complaining about parenting children in the comments expect, someone to suggest crucible patches) then it's the ADULTS who have to start the change.
What, do people think Bungie is going to regulate something? They've done all they can with the rating system. Do people think KIDS are going to change from a forum post? If they're the kind that's acting out so badly, they're not going to change because they read something online. So OF COURSE the change has to start with the way adults behave.
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Edited by jokefacekillah3: 4/27/2017 1:56:14 PMIn my opinion, I think Lfg sites should have a dedicated section for kids to find other kids to play the game with. This will solve the problem of younger players getting offended by the "No Kids" posts. This way adults will play with adults and kids will play with other kids.
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Edited by TheArtist: 4/27/2017 1:07:48 PMNot my responsibility to parent someone else's child. IF I'm raid leader or one of the senior raid members, I will ask the child to stop the offending behavior and explain why it is necessary. But if the kid refuses to listen or comply? Done. If I'm not one of those raid leadership people, and I'm simply someone who was invited to the party? Once I've reached the limit of my patience and tolerance, I'm out. In the setting of this game, I am one of that childs "peers", and the relationship is transactional. We are here to get a raid done. I am not a parent, a role model or an authority figure. It is the responsibility of OTHER adults in that child's life to see to his "learning" and proper socialization. Not mine.
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Edited by Swiftlock: 4/22/2017 5:00:28 PMIn a perfect world, this is what we should be doing. Being jerks to kids just makes them jerks as well. Thing is, a LOT of people really don't seem to have the patience or motivation to be "mentors" to random kids in a video game. Nor do kids want strangers on the internet to act as if they were their parents. I certainly didn't want people telling me how to behave when I was that age. If anything, there's a good chance it will make the kid even more uncooperative. You share a good message, but it often doesn't run parallel to how the real world works.
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Edited by medic: 4/22/2017 2:39:23 AMI'm 13, and I gotta say: It's really annoying being thrown in the "squeaker" category because yes, I have a kid voice, but not annoyingly high... And yes, I can get excited and frustrated at times, but then again, so do we all.... Other times I'm chill, and if I do blow up annoyingly I usually then apologize afterwards. But yea, I like playing Trials and seeing 5 posts in a row saying "no kids" or "no squeakers" is really annoying. Also, mind if I add you? I would like to play with people like you more often....
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Do you want to hear children argue and fight which I really hate kids that argue and fight Do you want kids to mess up on a raid I kick them out if they mess up on a raid Do want them taking your spot I will get really mad If children argue and fight I will kick them out of my fireteam
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I just think it's a case of "do the raid well and on't get distracted". I couldn't care less what you do in your spare time, how old you are, what you sexually identify as or what your life is like. If you can play well and stay focused, there's room for you on my team. If we need focus, stay focused. I've come across many "squeakers" who are great it's just their friends who get upset when they can't do it because they're either: too bad, too low light or are just too plain annoying. I don't believe this is a post for the adults, if anything it's a post for the kids. [spoiler]And because we're all doing this, I'm 16[/spoiler]
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You keep talking about accepting the kid into our team. 75% of the time we have no knowledge of said kid. We put out expectations of doing the raid. If they are not met you get kicked. Just like a job you don't do it they fire. There not going to ask you nicely to quit or resign. Nope the company just says your done get out. You are litterally asking us to do one of the major things that's been corrupting these kids for the past 10 years.
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We don't kick them for no reason,mostly we threaten them to pull in line many times before the kick.
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this game is 16+, why should we allow kids into raids?
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No matter your age, your race, your gender, or even your mentality. If I see that we're wiping too much for constant chattering. I tell all of us, myself included, to only speak for importance. Ex:Grabbing sword, help on left, empowered in mid.
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Edited by Lacuna: 4/24/2017 9:36:25 PMThe thing is, a lot of that is their parents' job. We don't want or need to do their job for them. If they don't want to take responsibility for their child, that doesn't mean we have to. It just means they're bad parents.
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Kids shouldn't be playing a game for ages 14+. I'm not fathering some kid who's parents don't love them enough to encourage healthier activities and hobbies.
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The best way to solve it is to have matchmaking in Raids. That way, you do not have to deal with LFG and it will also make everyone have the chance to get good gear.
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There are some great, funny, well behaved kids online so I am not painting with a broad brush. But regarding your post about the intolerable kids on Destiny: 1. I do not get online after an 8 hour work day, or maybe mowing the yard, whatever real life stuff I'm brushing off for a few hours just to baby sit or teach somebody's kids how to behave because his/her parents don't know how 2. Anyone under 14 shouldn't be playing online games unsupervised period. You want to play online juvenile delinquent tamer, teach the Destiny daycare demographic manners, ok fine take that on but the other 4 adults in your party have to be on the same page, because if even just one of them says something negative your whole plan doesn't work. 3. The brand of kids we are talking about do not care what online stranger adults are telling them 97% of the time, because they are also there to escape the bully at school, or whatever they are dealing with, and they are immortal online and can't shut up. Combine this with the ego on some of these kids and it's just not worth it. 4. I can't tell you how many times I went through the trouble to put an LFG group together, took the time, let a couple kids in the group. Stipulation was everyone is in for a full run. We were nice to them of course. One boss in and kids bail, their parents are making them go to their aunts, they have to do their homework, or some other thing that is completely out of their control that totally effects your play experience. This is not me being mean, this is just me saying that I do not always have hours upon hours of play time to waste.
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Screw all this. To hell with disruptive kids. They will get treated by me according to how they act.
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I don't care if someone is a kid or not. If they are not listening to the squad, causing havoc or just screwing around?, kick them and get someone who wants to play.
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Yesterday - doing Crota and kid was leaving spawn roombefore killing any knights and messing around. Wasting people's time should have limits also. You can't tell people to "hurry up" and "suck my d~ck" ect ect. Respect is one thing - but it shouldn't be a one way street.
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Thank you, first reasonable post I've seen on this topic.
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I'm all for common courtesy, but I'm not here to teach someone else's kids. If I wanted to babysit, or mentor, I'd go sign up at a Boys & Girls Club. I disagree with this idea that somehow we are the moral shepherds of these little fragile balls of bullsh!t. If kids are going to learn anything from playing in a game like this, it's that some people are mean, and are a$$holes, and won't tolerate them like their sh!tty parents do. You can learn just as much from a bad experience as you can from a good one.
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Sound advice BUT I'm not into parenting someone else's kid. It's way easier to simply not play with them or insta-kick whenever they join the fireteam. I've got better things to do then tell Little Johnny the error of his ways. Fill your boots. You can be the Dr. Phil for Destiny if that makes you happy.
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Yeah asking or telling them to stop has worked for me in the past. Some kids playing may not have to many friends, may get bullied or what not, they could use destiny as a get away from whatever they got going on and may not even realize how much they are talking or being annoying to the rest of the group. No reason to bully them here to, Give them a chance to chill out ask them to stop and go from there.
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I never berate the squeakers or bully them, but it's my game experience too and we don't have to coddle the kids. I have no problem kicking a squeaker after one warning to stop whatever nonsense they're doing.
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Ridalin! (Spelling)
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I stopped two paragraphs in with the thought of NO I waste enough time making sure my kids are not brats just to waste my only fun time trying to teach someone else's kids to not be brats when 9 out of 10 are to far gone already anyway no thanks to much work in an environment that's meant to be a get away and fun for me.. I'm not a teacher for crying out loud! Point made so give it to me grammar police cause I'm not wasting any more time putting in punctuation
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So, be their parents? No thanks.
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Edited by Corrick II: 4/22/2017 4:57:28 PMGreat post. This point needs to be made more often, it's true we didn't sign up to be surrogate parents when we started playing Destiny but part of our social contract is setting a good example for the people around us, kids especially. Like it or not, we do have a responsibility to teach the younger generations where necessary. If you're one of the people who say "It's not my job be someone's parent", then fine, just don't say anything. But if you're a team leader with the ability to kick and you're about to do it to a kid for whatever reason (hopefully not a spiteful one), then you [i]have[/i] to calmly explain why, and also what they should do to improve in the future. If you don't, they'll keep getting more and more spiteful as they start to blame everyone else for what's happening "to" them, not "because" of them. Sorry, but that's just part of being human. It takes a village.