[b][ Warning: Long Read. There is a short summary towards the end. ][/b]
For those of you who use the No Land Beyond a lot, and think of yourselves as regular NLB users, then you know the whole story of the No Land Beyond. But let's focus on the recent things.
I think everyone can agree that the NLB had a sudden spike in popularity not too long after Sniper Rifles got their flinch nerf. The NLB wasn't included in this, and therefore everyone was using it to get around this nerf.
Personally, I believe that it was right to not include the NLB. When you compare its iron sights to every sniper scope imaginable, then you can see that more flinch would affect the NLB more negatively than the others (I do realize there's ONE sniper scope that has very low zoom, and practically acts as a reflex sight, but that's optional for most snipers).
However, everyone felt as though the NLB was too powerful compared to other snipers, and was well-deserving of being a part of the nerf. And so, Bungie listened to the community and gave it the same flinch that other snipers share. I was accepting of this. I didn't like it, but it was bound to happen.
Not too long after, I became a little inactive from the forums, and only returned to see the update notes from last Tuesday. To my surprise, they worsened the flinch of the No Land Beyond further.
For those that don't know, in the Age of Triumph update, the NLB's flinch was made to be more 'directional.' To put it simply, this means that the flinch will go in more directions other than upwards. Most will say that this is very fair, however, I would disagree. And the main reason I have for this is the [u]iron sights[/u].
You all know (hopefully) that the NLB has an iron sight, unlike all other sniper rifles. And respectively, it doesn't provide as much view of the target area as other sights. This means that when the flinch is going off in more directions than upwards, than you will most likely either be forced to retreat, or just die. In fact, while using the NLB, if you get into a gunfight with a pulse rifle or auto rifle, you are VERY likely to lose the gunfight.
Now, for those that would argue that the No Land Beyond is a sniper, and shouldn't be used for trivial gunfights like that, I would like to point out that it very much IS used to be used for those kinds of gunfights. After all, the NLB is a [u]primary[/u] weapon.
And I know what you may be thinking: just pull out your nifty Wormwood and blast away the enemy. Easy! Well, I'm trying to focus on the NLB itself, and not anything that players can use to back it up. Because I feel like we shouldn't have to consider a weapon 'balanced' by having to back it up with other weapons or equipment.
Of course, I'm not implying that you can't win a gunfight anymore. However, it does take incredible skill to adapt to the flinching that you receive, and that's on top of the skill that you need to use the gun in general!
What I'm suggesting is that the No Land Beyond should be changed back to it's formal glory. At least, change it to how it was before the Age of Triumph update.
[b][u]As a summary[/u][/b], I feel as though the No Land Beyond does not need excessive nerfing on it's flinch, and should maybe be brought back to one of it's original states. The iron sights were not really designed for the way normal snipers flinch, since those snipers have more visual sight on the enemy with the zoom.
Make the No Land Beyond great again!
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I use nlb on the regular pretty much since ttk and I find it to be just fine. I main it actually. I rarely use any other gun since August of last year.
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The worst part about the entire thing was that no land beyond has been a laughing stock for a long time. Now that it's actually being used people are saying "Woah hey, this thing shoots bullets that can kill people? Not in my game. Nerf that crap." People have to get over themselves. I ran no land beyond for a long time and I never had one complaint, ever. But now, since people are using it more (which isn't their fault, it's the balance team's for f*cking up the entire crucible) people are pointing out things that have been perfectly fine as issues that are "game breaking" and "overpowered". Come off it, it's slow shooting gun that punishes you if you miss, able to be out gunned by a lot of other weapons. Don't complain about guns anymore, it's not worth it now that you've ruined the only thing in the game that made crucible interesting.
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It is a primary bolt-action sniper with a reload glitch. No.
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They fixed it. Quit calling it a nerf.
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It gets around the special ammo economy and has the BS reload cancel. So how about nope
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You do know scout rifles with iron sights flinch just as much if not more right? And NLB is long , So just think of it like they shoot the weapon. Causing it to fling around
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It is only fair it has the flinch of a normal sniper. Also, I am tired of unloading into a guys face and making him flinch a ton just for him to somehow shoot me in the face with his NLB.
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Edited by Normal Coin: 4/3/2017 4:10:01 PMYeah! And put Last word and Thorn to Y1 meta! Also nerf Autos and Fusions!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH no.
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So the gun actually flinches now, instead of being a visual glitch. What's your complaint again?
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No! Just No!
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jesus. no.
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We've passed the point of no return. There is.... [b]No Nerfs Beyond[/b]
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No land beyond was and still is the easiest sniper in the game to use. No
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I won't say that the nerf was necessary, but I also won't take the other side. I simply didn't like the fact that once again, 4 weapons were dominating the Crucible. You had Pali, Eyasluna, NLB, and Wormwood. That was it. Because of the recent patch, autos have become more visible in the Crucible, and other pulses are also cycling. Hand Cannons are still at top, because the Bungo guys decided that instead of fixing the two HCs that were causing trouble, they nerfed them all. Rip to my Water Star. I will admit that NLB takes a good amount of skill to use. It's not a gun I use often, and when I do, I do rather poorly. In the end, if flinch was actually applied, but went vertically, I'd be okay with it.
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It's a sniper. Every other sniper has flinch because of overuse in pvp. You did this to your crutch
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Yup and vex Thorn Suros Hawkmoon Doctrine Clever Dragon Matador and bring back felwinters Don't be too upset your crutch is gone princess
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NLB had no flinch until the most recent nerf, not sure what op is talking about And no, a primary sniper should be hard to use, it's fine as is
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Again? It was always worse
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No, you should not be able to just stand there and land a head shot while someone is shooting you in the face with an Auto Rifle or Pulse Rifle. Retreat and try a different angle. Bungie has said in the past that it's designed as a run and gun type of weapon, not a stand your ground and soak up bullets while landing a head shot type of weapon.
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It was only an issue in one specific game type, just like so many other nerfs. One specific group of PvP players crying for so many nerfs. Can anyone guess the game type?
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You make me laugh a few days ago I came across a guy defending an open space with one. I was not kidding he was defending the open space around flag b with it if you stayed in his sight for more than half second you got head shot and he so good that even three people could not get to him by the end of the match I found my self on a three man team so obviously sniper need more of a nerf in my view.
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No land beyond is my most used gun in crucible and I have got to say though it is still a viable choice the OP is right 9/10 times you will lose a gun fight against an auto/pulse rifle because of there being so much flinch
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I did some testing and it seems like it has MORE flinch than other snipers. WTF Bungie?
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Uh...ehm, no.
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Edited by mrs4103: 4/3/2017 2:21:12 AMI think no land wouldn't even have been good if it HAD been included in the first round of sniper flinch nerfs. They probably didn't nerf it's flinch because of the spike in use, but because of the fact that it was left out. The nerf also happened because the gun is supposed to be used in skilled hands, not by someone who likes using meta weapons. But I think it really needs a nerf in impact slightly so it can't Rez snipe out of the gate. In year 2 it's wasn't able to but now it can. With a nerf to the impact I think they would need a buff to the master ( which increases precision damage for a short time for 7 seconds ) to about 10 or 12, making it able to Rez snipe, so instead of gunning someone down with your sidearm, then shooting their head when they self rez, it would require NLB to actually BE a skill weapon, not just something everyone can be successful with. The nerf was probably a joint combination of the overuse, non inclusion in the nerf, AND the use of less higher impact weapons now, making it seem less flinchy. And the nerf didn't kill the weapon use at all. Today I was running trials and saw multiple no lands. It's still a great weapon but now it takes skill to use.