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Edited by Lost Sols: 2/21/2017 5:45:30 AM
55

#destinytruthcast Episode 40: Destiny is dead, long live Destiny!

So here we sit a week into 2.5.0.2 and we've all had a chance to get hold of our emotions and actually spend some time playing the new changes. There was certainly a lot to discuss in this weeks episode as we give our opinions on what we've experienced. What has this patch meant to you and how has it affected how you play and enjoy Destiny? [quote]Downloadable Audio links: [b]SoundCloud[/b] https://soundcloud.com/oceans-of-canopy/dtc-episode-40-destiny-is-dead-long-live-destiny [b]iTunes[/b] https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/destinytruthcast-destiny-podcast/id1101605804?mt=2[/quote] [spoiler][quote]The #destinytruthcast is a Bnet #feedback forum community podcast hosted by members of the community and featuring community members as guests. The podcast was started to give everyday guardians a chance to do something they would probably never experience by being on a podcast and to give them the opportunity to have not just their thoughts, but their voices heard by Bungie as they discuss the game. Beyond that, it's allowed us to get to know the voices and personalities behind the gamertags we see on the forums and get to know each other in a way not possible in anonymous words on a page. We aren't here to endorse or tear down Bungie or Destiny, but to give honest, balanced talk on this game. Thank-you and maybe we'll see you on an episode. [/quote][/spoiler] Welcome to episode 40 of the #destinytruthcast where you the community join us in talking all things Bungie and Destiny. Today RedWingGirl and I are joined by bungie.net forum guests King Cepheus, HAVOC, sjshady0169 and thefortkeeper Today's topics include- -Guest general take on the patch -Speed of play post patch -Dealing with roaming supers -Sidearms... The new shotgun! -Bungie's special ammo solution -Heavy weapons post patch -Pulse Rifles -Have you switched primaries post-patch? -ARs post-patch -Have you switched to sidearms? -Destiny isn't Halo -Is this patch a D2 beta-test? -[i]Exotic Special Primaries![/i] -Should exotic weapon perks be rethought in D2? -Top-tier Raid gear (it should be) -Trials of just get rid of it already -Armor set bonuses -1:1 is a myth that needs to die -God rolls? Just make the perks intrinsic -Blues to Legendaries -Hand cannons -No Land Beyond -Infinite super glitch -Should Bungie have delayed the patch? -What weapons have fallen off post-patch? -What would you like to see with weapons over the final months of D1? -Favorite moments of the week Once again thank-you to King Cepheus, HAVOC, sjshady0169 and thefortkeeper for joining us today and we thank you for listening and participating on the forums. We can be found on twitter @dstinytruthcast and online at www.destinytruthcast.com As always, if you'd like to be on a future podcast, message us and let us know your thoughts on the game and what you think would be an important topic to come on and discuss. We look forward to hearing from you and can't wait to hear more voices on the next episode :) [spoiler]Theme song: Convince Us Artist: Swell Album: Whenever You're Ready[/spoiler] [spoiler]Once again I want to thank each of the Guardians who've appeared on the #dtc and helped make this such a cool experience as we've gotten to know each other a little and talk Destiny. Hope the list continues to grow with many more Guardians from the forums :) WoundedBdgr0317 CarnivalLaw J Stevensontown W4RPRIEST DOMINATION fibeto mastercheeif Draken Wolfe iDovahbear Wraith13 RavenousLD3341 RedWingGirl1999 BigTexB007 Kabr LoganX Tzoedn KnightsXB ill skillz 1881 pacificdune Swedishbass MrMatrix24 Fido246 U Cant Tunafish Knightslayer Domwompy Ashe DemonicDMouse Micktheknife Hap Happyton King Nis Trynn IronBill Synge laughingman911 darkjohn333 Z3RO Supreme Butthurt Dynamite MADG33K SithLord Osirus Mayhem420 Dardex2112 Rorschach9182 Caladur Orpheus49 TheKungLao ProYunkinator The Grass Fever ERN ACOLYTE Aerikx Optimus immortal Psyperactive81 piratepatchy243 jcald1978 Durandal Synge1080 Astareign Carlous Scopalo Theo Papi (Shotgun Warrior) Tim of Tacoma Mercules904 x614hamstercatx biglou_x1000 Supermans Doctor MessersCohen King Cepheus HAVOC sjshady0169 thefortkeeper[/spoiler]

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  • FINALLY finished the episode. Epic. I'll keep it short because it's already Wednesday and there's already new news. I can't believe it but I agreed with King on how I feel about the patch. I'm OK with most things but there are a few areas that don't feel right. I can also agree that with the Ammo nerf they 'should' be able to make specials feel more special (That was King's thought right?) I agree 100% with RWG about how the ammo on death nerf should affect ALL specials. We're seeing this sidearm surge for the ONLY reason that you don't loose ammo. If they did we'd see better special usage stats than we see now. As you were looking for some Hand Cannon feedback I can give some. My Eyasluna has a pretty good roll on it as I've mentioned. Within the effective range it's still a beast and can win most fights as long as I'm accurate. The new damage falloff is very noticeable. On Vertigo, as an example, I used to be able to 3 tap someone (Pacing headshots) from A or C to the portal area. Now it's almost no damage. Even on something like Bannerfall in the "hallway" near where the Spark spawns the damage is very low shooting at someone at the other end. Understanding that they don't want them to compete with scouts I can tell you that even being accurate it was more than a 5 shot at that range. It's really forced me to use them more situational and map dependent. On Scouts I mentioned in [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/222357892]my other thread[/url] that something felt off as I struggles with my Distant Star which felt amazing last IB. I also found that the consistency of getting special ammo was somewhat map dependent. Maps like Bannerfall where the special is right outside the spawn (easier on Clash or Rift) it was very easy to get ammo after respawn. However maps like Skyline or Widows Court where ammo was more in combat areas it was much harder. So much for short and sweet. Great show guys and great guests.

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  • In the video you will notice that the No land beyond used to have a big issue for me where I felt like I couldn't run it as primary until the change to special ammo spawn. Now thanks to the ammo changes I can actually run nlb as a primary weapon. I am more comfortable to run with this weapon now because I can actually pick up a white brick whenever a green box spawns in. Nlb is now a comfortable choice thanks to the change to special ammo boxes spawning in every 60 seconds. I used to run out of ammo for nlb a lot. During the so called "sniper meta" I ran double snipers and when to town with them. I want snipers to be moved to the primary slot in d2 not to the heavy slot like your friend redwinggirl said. In other games that I have played I was always fond of snipers a primary weapon choice. I like snipers a lot and I like them in cod, battlefield, titanfall 2, overwatch, killzone, and destiny of course. But that's just my thoughts on nlb and how it feels like an actual primary now. I know you despise snipers and you don't like them. What I think snipers should have is reduce the flinch to how it was before the 2.4.0 patch but only allow you to stay scoped in for 2 seconds so no one camps with snipers and hardscopes. The maps are to small so I think its fair to allow us to reduce the zoom on the short zoom scopes and make snapshot quicker. Flinch should only exist on the bigger maps that you get on combined arms not in the game modes that offer small maps. I myself despise camping hardscoping snipers. What this change would do is make it so even snipers can move more to the objectives rather than staying in the back. Its better that bungie promotes the game to be less camper friendly. But I want to know your thoughts Lost sol. Do you want a hardscoper camper or a rushing quickscoper? Currently snipers are used to camp in the back thanks to the heavy flinch so keep that in mind.

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  • Edited by og-ed-c: 2/23/2017 12:34:37 AM
    Late to the party but it is what it is. My general thoughts on the patch? It bull shit really. It's far too late in the games life span for them to be making such a huge change. Certain weapons require some synergy to make up for their short comings. As an Avid First Curse user this patch creates huge hole is my game that were filled by a well rolled secondary. IMO everyone who's happy with the patch just think that bungo finally stuck it to the trials players when this isn't the case. Now everyone who wasn't running a shotty gets punished and gets pigeonholed holed into guns they don't want to use. METAS AREN'T ABOUT ADAPTING, THEY'RE ABOUT SURVIVING. THAT SHIT AIN'T FUN. Have I swapped primaries? Nope still running the guns I like: Fabian Strategy, The First Curse, The lingering Song. Hand Cannons? I will always maintain that Hand Cannons as primaries was a shit tier call and they're the reason there is no real weapon balance. If you push auto's and pulses to far Hand Cannons get pinched off like a turd. No one is using auto's even after the buff because It is far easier in this game to three tap someone with their vendor rolled Palindrome than it is to hit all headshots with an auto. It's also the reason why scout rifles suck and hardly anyone uses them. Scout rifles should be three tapping at range not Hand Cannons. Top Tier Raid Gear? Absolutely. Top tier effort deserves top tier rewards. Weapons and armor that come from the raids and trials should be the best shit in the game full stop. If you don't have 2 hours for a raid clear then that's your cross to carry. You're either going to put in work/find the time and get things done or you're not. If you just want to sit back and relax that's what strikes and iron banner are for. I wish I had more time to comment I have opinions about all of these but I digress. Cheers.

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  • Good listen. My faviroute bit was when Redwing gets triggered, its good to hear someone with passion for their gear or play style that is not a meta requirement. I don't think its the end of the conversation regarding nerfs and balance i think this year it will hit boiling point in the forums.

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    • Edited by Pumatay PSN: 2/22/2017 1:07:14 AM
      Looking forward to hearing your podcast.

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      • Edited by Trill_0012: 2/22/2017 10:17:59 AM
        Edit: Is anyone else testing all of the warlock melees like I am?

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        • Edited by Pro: 2/21/2017 10:15:31 PM
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          Good job hosting RWG! This patch is what Destiny needed -- but it isn't perfect. 6v6 game modes feel so good right now. Everyone is trying to play the "old way" with the new mechanics and it won't work. I don't believe special ammo was ever intended to be a super counter, or a counter to heavy. [i]Want a counter to an LMG??[/i][b] Use a rocket[/b]. [i]Want a counter to a blade dancer or storm lock? [/i][b]Use Fist of Havoc, Tether, Golden Gun, or Nova.[/b] Before this patch someone good with a special could dominate every aspect of the game. Now the game is forcing us into using our weapons and abilities in the appropriate way. If you have a fist of havoc, and you know the enemy team has a blade dancer, you better save that smash to counter the arc blade. Want to run an LMG? Great, but you will lose to rockets. Want to run a rocket? Great, but your ability to go on LMG-like kill streaks is severely limited. This patch brought balance and diversity back. But it's not perfect. The meta in elimination game modes quickly became palindrome + icebreaker or NLB + sidearm. That got stale... QUICK In 6v6 everyone uses a side arm because no one wants to camp boxes. Here are the changes that keeps diversity but leave everything viable. In elimination: - side arms do not retain "extra" ammo picked up during the match. - spawn in with half a mag of special ammo for all weapons. Rest of crucible: - auto reload when picking up special. -players that die with special drop a green box that is playable by both teams. These changes allow for fast gameplay but still promote variety and viability of all weapons.

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          • Edited by Orpheus49: 2/21/2017 2:14:26 AM
            Excellent cast, I think redwing should do the intro from now on, shes really good at it ☝👍 [spoiler][spoiler] [b]Game pace[/b] the pace of the game has become extremely slow and thats not something im very find of, the reason we say it feels like a cheap version of halo is a combination of ttk, the awful special economy, and we gotta fight over some not so power weapons It ends up being all sidearms for semi rushingm that are still a great camping too, nlb which has a huge advantage without that flinch change, handcannons which will always have some place in the meta as long as they 3 shot, and the one pulse that is good enough to be a threat, the shotgun nerf hit way harder than anticipated, being geounded means easy pickings for many, and going up means the sidearm will out dps you. In the end, theres no consistent ways to rush, and we end up getting Rainbow Six destiny edition of camping and wallbanging being so damn effective. The problem is how weak some the specials are, id be willing to try losing special on death if shotguns get rebuffed, fusions get more consistency, and snipers maybe get a bit better handling. That might create less camping if the agressive weapons are much more effective. [b]Special economy/destiny isint halo[/b]Along with special being better, id say we shouldent lose it all, id say sidearms stay as is, ans the others maybe lose like 1/4, or 1/2 upon so weapons like shotguns arent so punished when they get too many guns to deal with Even then i really dont like this style of special economy, all it does is ruin the flow of the game, with halo it was ok because as powerful as weapons there where, there where still a lot of them and other weapons on the field that made a difference, like a beam rifle here, a warthog there, etc and it made sense withing the golden formula that bungie created to flow like that withing its mechanics. Destinys mechanics were not built like that, so when you try to create a different flow , its ends up feeling akward, out of place, and just not right. Destiny should be destiny, not halo. My thread on this can be found here https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/222460921/0/0 [b]more supers[/b] The problem with not having many consistent one shots is the supers will run rampant, and they already are. I dont want super nerfs at all, but it is interesting to see how much of a difference special can make in terms of "does that blade dancer get loose?" [b]Primaires[/b] The pulse rilfe changes arent that noticable, still the go to average joe go to, but high impacts are much better in pve, thats all i was looking for sonce i just use hawksaw anyways, grasp and clever dragon seemed to only need a fire rate change, all they need to revert was the mag size change Handcannon are [u]Perfect[/u] handle great, are accurate, but arent snipers, fantastic job here, id only like to see the visual correction changed on the faster fire rate handcannon, and maybe a range boost to first curse Autos are awful, they arent gonna do anything if bungie tries to keep them as close range weapons, they need to be just as average joe as pulses or they will never be used Scouts flinch bug isint even noticable, i still use mida from time to time [b]Hungering blade ripple effect[/b] Boy they messed up, our guardians are further dummed down into average space marines. And they arent even going to buff everthing back up, that includes red death, huge mistake on bugnies part, and am pissed they even considered these change, bladedancer is already as bad as it is, and theres no reason to change any thing else, we can all agree they need to change everything back, not just a few [b]Best gear? Should be all gear[/b] The best gear should not be just raid gear, some of us dont have time for 2 hours or 3 of raiding to get anything good. There should be quest and random exotics to help the not so time blessed with some rng blessings. Some of us jist dont like pve that much, why should we play pve to be equipped to play pvp? It should not be the best, like Cepheus said, fate bringer can be cool at pve and unique in its own according, but there should be effective weaponry all around[/spoiler] Overall this patch has really disappointed me, the game feels way too damn slow, it feels like generic shooter now that wall banging and camping is the best strategy, and i simply hate that bungie has no respect for our dedication and pracrices to our playstyles, when they nerf our tools and make us play the way they want, making our practices almost for nothing. im give the sandbox team one more chance, thats it Good cast everyone, hope to play with ya guys some time, the game is still fun in a group.

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          • Edited by Orpheus49: 2/20/2017 7:44:21 PM
            That is a lot to talk about. Earphones in Edit: Redwinggirl! What a freaking intro! That was fantastic!

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            • Edited by CatMan: 2/21/2017 12:37:11 AM
              Oh yeah, question for everyone in the cast, Are you guy ok with the special ammo change? I personally want it reverted. The changes to shotguns was enough imo.

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              • Edited by Mayhem420: 2/21/2017 3:33:40 PM
                So just saw on Twitter that Josh Hamrick or what ever his name is says that Truth wont be undone cause its a "monster" in PvP and lands everytime its fired .. what? Also stated they are looking into other nerfs based on his posts. Seriously?? -blam!- that guy and the horse he road in on. After seeing they said some health regen issues would be rolled back. Thought finally they are actually listing. When in fact they aren't and still base changes on "personal reasons " Cool enjoy playing D2 I wont be... not going through this shit show again.

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                • Edited by Black_Widow503: 2/21/2017 12:07:23 AM
                  The fact that that one person said that people having more supers is a skorris problem proves people aren't understanding just how skorris works and no one is thinking why skorris is even a problem to begin with! One person said that one of the hunters already had his super in the second round of Trials and that was because he was getting kills with his special weapon instead of his primary where special weapon kills give you more super energy than a primary. Here's what they aren't understanding is that that one person that got his super so quickly from the first round transferred into the second round to earn his super by getting a ton of kills himself with his special weapon because every kill he got went directly to his super energy alone. Which brings me back to carries in Trials being a huge problem. One person is great and gets his super quickly because he's beast at killing everyone and then uses skorris to give his "not so good" teammates their supers for doing nothing at all. The problem isn't just skorris here people try and think why all of this is happening in Trials. Skorris is just part of the problem not the whole picture. I understand not wanting skorris in Trials because it makes it easier for the MLG streamers and good players to carry the "not so good" teammates through Trials and to the lighthouse. It also gives streamers a disadvantage if one person on the other team is good and can kindly hand his teammates their super by just being next to them camping all round. It all revolves around the top 1% again.

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                  • Edited by blade329: 2/21/2017 7:51:49 PM
                    This sounds like a great podcast. I've got to subscribe to this! I'll do it today. Some great topics. [quote]-Should Bungie have delayed the patch?[/quote] I might have to side with Bungie on this. We have a very impatient player base around here and they want instant gratification NOW!!!!!! So, maybe Bungie caved to the constant incessant cries of , "WHERE'S THE BALANCE PATCH?????......Waaaaaahhhhhh......". If that's the case, the emotional whining impatient Destiny player has nobody to blame but himself for a rushed patch job.

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                  • Edited by D Jackson SG: 2/21/2017 4:18:32 AM
                    Where to even get started? I feel like changing the core of the game is silly. Rotating meta, all that. Why would anyone want to buy a game that essentially only exists for a couple months before it's altered and it completely changes the gameplay? If the game were free i wouldn't be justifiably aggravated. I'm still annoyed that after 3 DLC the game is only just now becoming a 60 dollar game. The special ammo messing has been ridiculous the whole lifespan of Destiny. Find something that works and stick with it instead of taking a handful of things every so often and inputting what feels like unthought random numbers into a formula and hoping that you get something better. There's a lot less diversity now than there was in vanilla it seems. The MIDA is now garbage and all other scouts kinda suck. I really don't like the sights on a majority of weapons. They feel awkward, so there are a lot of decent things I don't use. Maybe find a way to make all weapons kill in same amount of time. I played control the other day and at a decent range, me firing first and missing no shots(with MIDA, only scout i like anymore that isn't just year one) end up getting shredded by hand cannons. In a range that's for scout rifles. Poop... And exotics in general since year one don't feel special at all. The special perks are all meh. MIDA is still my favorite gun and it's perks are garbage(other than agility, I love that perk). Aren't any perks from any exotics I really care about. I did like patience and time and icebreaker(only have a year one. There's a current icebreaker right?). I like bones as far as armor but almost never use any others. The chest if alpha lupi is kinda useless as there are only so many games types that allow revive where it even matters. Don't think this is on the list but year 1 gear should upgrade and infuse like rest. I'd trade my special and heavy slots for a vision of confluence. I was really happy when they added old IB gear to current light level as iron regalia is the only set of armor I like as far as aesthetics. Just. Stop. Nerfing. Stuff. I hated thorn in year one(and TLW), but only cause EVERYONE was using them at the time in crucible. Very boring and frustrating. But thorn got nerfed to the point it's no fun. I don't use thorn, I'm putting in a good word for those who do. Would love to see a competitive playlist with set weapons or classes. Like 1 scout rifle, hand cannon, etc. No need for perks. It's a bummer this is the best performing shooter out there by far but 1st person shooters and multiplayer are now more about unique skills and powers and not about SHOOTING anymore. All games are guilty of this like CoD, Titanfall etc... I know I'm a little off topic, sorry... God rolls? Blah... Need a new way to work weapons in D2. Maybe being able to roll individual perks cuz the god roll thing is ridiculous. I don't even like the most popular crap as I assume others don't either. Just make them more intentionally customizable. Diablo 3 has a better way to change stuff with legendaries, not that I'd want that exact model used but it's an idea. You can transmogrify or whatever as well. Wpuld be nicw to craft useful versions of armor you like the look of. And firing modes would be great if changeable. I don't want to dance or point or wave or sprinkler or grieve. 4 wasted buttons IMO. one of the old 1st person ghost recons had a button for firing modes, very cool. One of my favorite features of all time in a shooter. Firing modes shouldn't change stats really at all. The different way you use them changes with the firing modes. It's always better to fire in bursts when not close range so if the stats don't change your using the weapon differently already and that affects how it works. Is the firing mode and stat thing understandable or should I elaborate? I don't play trials. 3v3 is kinda boring. I'll never go to lighthouse as it doesn't hold my attention well enough to care. How about trials playlists:3v3, 6v6, smaller more intimate maps like asylum and twilight gap. Those are good maps. Actually, should have smaller maps that promote fast action and intense close quarters combat. And I'm not talking about shotgun maps. Halo was cool cuz the close quarters and insane maneuvering used. It was cool to jump into a fight and be able to move around your opponent and use multiple tactics to take him down. Bashing from behind a 1 hit kill(that was always very cool), grenade sticks, halo 2 style Magnum fights close quarters. There were many legit ways to fight CQ. It was fast paced and intense and more rewarding when you succeeded and wanted to get back in and redeem yourself when defeated. When D2 comes out I'll wait 6 months and check reviews before I purchase.

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                    • Josh Hamrick needs to be fired.

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                      • Updated: In all Sols, I really feel like that [quote]You either love or hate this patch[/quote] Is super relevant. What I notice across the board though, is that people are coming up with arguments and rants without any facts or figures- PEOPLE- are pretty much playing to play- and one or two things don't go their way, then they get mad. Then they post here. I've seen a few posts here and there that actually have good stats and figures- like I found a post to nerf sidearms- THAT I ACTUALLY AGREED WITH- the weapon usage literally went up 53% in trials alone, I can't imagine the casual 6v6 modes. In all what i see is there is more diversity, though I am guilty of the shotgun meta- literally skewed my weapon usage stats, I was super comfy with my scout and hand cannon primary use before. [spoiler]Yes, isn't it shockin I backed a nerf post? [/spoiler]

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                        • BUMP!

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                        • It was a great cast, lively exchanges, and an excellent panel. Still too out of it to go in-depth (ill) but my personal opinion is the worst part about the patch isn't that it's completely overdone on multiple levels, does things no one asked for or needed, or once again damaged one side of play in favor of another; it's that Bungie's reputation takes another severe blow. There are only two ways of looking at this: 1. They are incompetent. If they knew about the bug only three days before and released the patch anyway, it was the wrong choice. Take the heat, hold the patch, get it right. That's what a company that cares about their image and integrity would do. No company that cares about customer retention does what Bungie just did - knowingly release major flaws inserted into what was supposed to be a patch. 2. They lied. The fact they mentioned nothing about this stuff beforehand is not good, and I agree with Sols on this point. Yes, KC, people would still be mad, but they would not feel lied to, and it is an important distinction. See NOW the problem is compounded by their comments in following days that indicate maybe they won't patch the things that were accidentally nerf'd. I know, some have said they believe it was an accident but they are afraid to fix it because it they will break other stuff, but the way it was handled and ensuing comments from developers taken on the whole leave a very dishonest taste in my mouth. This would not be the first time Bungie has lied to us. So there you go; are they liars or are they just idiots? Because there is no excuse for what just happened.

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                        • Great show. Glad to see an opposing view from King C. Regarding the special ammo economy change. I like it. But I agree, it should have been across the board, including sidearms. Ammo regen should be a PVE only perk, I"ve thought that for a long while. And should be BUFFED for PVE. Special ammo should be SPECIAL. You need to go out and get it. The SPECIAL as PRIMARY meta we've had for so long has been wrong for a very long time. All they've done here is create a need to use sidearms. I know some folks LIKE sidearms, but I don't. Not fun to use. Kills aren't as satisfying as shotguns/fusions/snipers. Understand RWG's point about not being able to take down a roaming Super. But to me, it's a SUPER. You're supposed to wreck some shit and create some havoc. Team shooting still works, albeit after a couple of Super kills. With special ammo boxes spawning every 1 minute folks should have some at least 50% of the time. Sometimes it takes a Super to kill a Super. I love shutting down a storm caller with FoH. You know what else they should have done? Taken back Heavy drops to 3 times a match like it was before. To me, the scramble to Heavy is always one of the most enjoyable parts to PVP.. and hell increasing its drop rate would help counteract Supers. Win/Win to me. After the patch I used Genesis Chain in ToO with Mayhem and TKL. And you know what? We didn't totally completely 100 % suck. I look forward to trying out my Extremophile with Perfect/Counter Balance and HC. Glad to hear they are fixing the health regen.. but Red Death and Striker Transfusion should go back to the way they were. Freaking Josh Hamrick on his Twitter is spouting how RD will be better now. STFU Dude, you know nothing. If it's ain't broke, don't -blam!-ing fix it. In fact, don't TOUCH IT. WALK AWAY.

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                        • Hey man, I no longer am playing. Wish you all the best in your future pod casts. Take care.

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                          • I like how y'all pull gamers from the community That got you an instant "like" and "sub!"

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                          • What is dead shall never die!

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                          • im listening, now. Let's see whats good ?

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                          • Just unsub'd, because you said Titans are master class Wrong [spoiler]I'm kidding .. but that titan speed tho >> [/spoiler]

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