A change from year 1:
There was a change in the structure of trials between year one and year two, this is a fact. On paper the change to card position based MM vs CBMM/SBMM would produce two intended, positive outcomes:
1. Progressive challenge: as a player moves up in card position, he or she faces tougher opponents.
2. accessibility for lower skilled players: along with the change to matchmaking, bounties were added so that players would have a better shot at both getting rewarded, as well as playing teams of similar skill(being in a lower position on the card).
Unforeseen consequences: in reality, and not on paper
After the change, there was a greater number of advertisements for paid carries, on top of increased instances of DOS attacks. The recruitment forum for trials is littered with paid carry ads, this was not the case in year one. I believe that these things are directly related.
Sadly, I dug into this phenomenon, as I became disillusioned with constant failed attempts to get to the lighthouse. I began following streamers, playing sweats, and became acquainted with several people involved with paid Carry services. However, I was never carried myself. Instead, I used my time, playing with elite players to pick up tips and tricks I would later use to better my game.
Tales from the seedy side of Trials
A few things to note are, even when a streamer is advertising a raffle for a free Carry, it is almost always a paid affair... As at any point someone can donate for a VIP Carry. Not at one point, during The many hours that I watched and followed streamers, did I see even one raffle go through, every time someone donated Hard money. If two people donated, a bidding war would start, and sometimes the charges got up to around $70 dollars.
One of the guys I met who is involved with paid Carries, was a really nice guy, and we started hanging out just playing casual crucible together. He admitted to me that the company that he worked for, was started after the change made in year two, to the structure of trials, due to it being easier to manipulate. He also admitted that his company alone, employed over 1000 players, and within their world it was competitive.
If players were failing to complete carries, opportunities would go elsewhere, so it was common among his circle that people would utilize DOS attacks... He was recently banned from Trials for this very reason. Currently, he is leveling a new character and has absolutely no reservations about doing the same thing again. All in all, I don't judge him(outside the DOS attacks), he's got the time and is able to make supplemental income doing something he enjoys.
Unfortunately, based on what I have seen and learned, the current system of trials is corrupt and toxic. One of the saddest things I saw following streamers, was that most of the people who were getting carried, were good enough to go to the lighthouse on their own... They simply did not want to spend hours jumping from group to group, looking for a good team, when they could simply pay for one. Great players being carried, was way more of a common occurrence than the whole "trials Sherpa" scenario(which is an attempt to put a friendly face on a serious issue).
A little about me and Trials: and crux of the argument
If it makes you feel superior to remind me of my inferiority, be my guest, but it doesn't change the facts. To say that everyone who is critical of the state of Trials is a salty loser, is a veiled assertion of superiority. I have no horse in this race, as I gave up trials months ago, after witnessing the seedy side of its workings. For me going flawless was a momentous occasion in year one, and I made it a point to go flawless on all my characters to obtain most of the cool gear.
Beyond the rewards, I enjoyed the competition, as well as the challenge of countering all the creative strategies that players used. Trials was what kept me going during house of wolves. I loved it. Based on how it is structured, Trials is currently just a game mode dominated by elite players, paid professionals, and cheaters. None of which who care anything, about a good match, going to the Light House, or obtaining cool gear. The community surrounding trials currently, is either using their position for pub stomping to pad ELO or worse, controlling who goes to the Light House for supplemental income.
Problem/solution
If you think this is cool, or a decent representation of the game, then we simply have a disagreement. However, commonsense will tell you that any bubble based on corruption, or toxic assets will eventually bust. It's only a matter of time. The only way to open the door for more players to witness the joy of trials, as opposed to being consistently destroyed by professionals and ELO farmers is to:
1. Reinstate CBMM/SBMM and get rid of card position based MM. It was a noble endeavor that fell on its ass, it just doesn't work.
2. Place players who go flawless on each character(not one account) into a flawless bracket with increased drop rates on weapons, armor, and cosmetic items. Going flawless in the flawless bracket would yield more loot as well as a series of exclusive emblems and shaders for bragging rights.
If these two changes were implemented, I can promise you we would see:
1. A massive reduction in paid carries
2. Less cheating and DOS attacks.
3. Less lag due a larger player counts.
4. Competitive, exciting streams, with consistent good matches in the flawless bracket instead of pub stomps, YES I SAID IT.
5. Better, closer matches.
6. An actual end game PVP accessible to the Majority player base.
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i feel like if they did the flawless bracket there would be more dosing and cheating
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Finally. A well presented argument with an actual solution for both sides. Bump.
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I would actually be interested in playing in a flawless only bracket. It would be an interesting challenge that would actually give meaning to trials.
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This is a very well written post! I like how you state problems and provide solutions. I like point #1, 2 not as much but still awesome post overall.
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Look at my recent trials games... All of the enemy teams were sweats... All of them...
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Why not restrict trials to just one lighthouse trip per character per reset? Thatll reduce their ability to do paid for carries a great deal. Theyd be forced to maintain multiple accounts which starts to get pricy at 60-80 per 1 year account.
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Edited by ironBill: 12/23/2016 12:46:34 PMBump. To be fair, this feeds into what I already believed to be true (confirmation bias), but over and over there are aspects of your post that ring true. 1. When money and awards are at stake, people will cheat. 2. When a living is available, even supplemental income, people will fill the slots. 3. People will do what it takes to win. 4. People employed in these endeavors will lobby Bungie to retain/increase their advantages. 5. People are largely sheep and will believe what streamers tell them to be true simply because the streamers are "great players". The most important point you make however is how paid carries have destroyed the integrity of the competition. Competition only works if everyone involved believes they have a fair chance to win. I believe most people can accept being outplayed by a superior player. No one can accept being cheated. With ToO, it's widely understood DDOS and paid carries are openly practiced. Why ANYONE would want to enter that environment to even TRY to get a fair match puzzles me. Sure it can be done, but... what happens when you suddenly face a team of red bars, or your Internet suddenly and mysteriously craps out on you? I mean I guess it's fine you might run up against a streamer who's carrying two other players and get wiped out, that's more or less legit, but then that means professional players are being matched with amateurs. The athlete in me knows that is wrong. The long and the short of it is the system is corrupt. Anyone going into it should be warned they may or may not get a fair shake, and you enter at your own risk. If it's going to really bother you to get cheated, don't go.
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Outstanding post, Synge. Essentially, you've some quality investigative reporting. Unfortunately, I don't think Bungie has the manpower or, more importantly, the [i]will[/i] to make any meaningful changes to Destiny.
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trials didn't ruin destiny, [b]bungie[/b] ruined [i]trials.[/i]
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They're actually not allowed and honestly you should be banned if you advertise or do them. It's a disgraceful way to feed off of others bad playing for money, how about instead of asking for money and play all day, you go get a real job paid carriers? -Mister Bungie
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U r spot on Year 1 there was no destiny carry crap on twitch
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Eloquently said with some excellent points. Hopefully someone from Bungie will see this and chime in with their thoughts.
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lol because you're not good enough to bra 2 people carrying someone who sucks they should be banned. They will just account recovery buddy. Card based matchmaking is superior is every way
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Trials is 100% broken. I spent hours LFG for a trials group and could not find one. Unless you have a fortune 500 resume, that part of the game is no longer accessible. I do not think Trials can recover and it is on its last few breaths.
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[quote]One of the guys I met who is involved with paid Carries, was a really nice guy, and we started hanging out just playing casual crucible together. He admitted to me that the company that he worked for, was started after the change made in year two, to the structure of trials, due to it being easier to manipulate. He also admitted that his company alone, employed over 1000 players, and within their world it was competitive. [/quote] This is the craziest thing I've ever read on these forums. Please provide proof so I can report said company to bungie and you should've done so as well as soon as that steamer mentioned that. Which I still don't even believe is true because if it was, it would've been pointed out long ago by the community and bungie would've dealt with them. They've posted on a previous trials related thread and Cozmo replied saying that bungie does not tolerate or condone someone being paid to carry people through trials. I'm sorry, but I don't believe this what so ever.
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Edited by Felicity_Faye: 12/23/2016 11:52:52 AMPeople are too obsessed with getting rewards or winning to the point where if they do not win, or do not get the rewards they want, they don't have fun. Why can't people just have fun by simply playing the game? As soon as you stop caring about the rewards, about winning/losing, you'll have a much more enjoyable time playing Destiny. And you play better when you are enjoying yourself.
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Yep when trials first started back in the day I knew what was going to happen. And all the ride alongs with bungie showed how toxic the community really is because of trials.
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I think paid trials carries are dumb however it's that person's money so let them do what they want with it. If it's not affecting your experience then there is no point in complaining about it.
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nothing is greater than playing against two elite players and one person getting mega carried, finding them on twitch, and then seeing how salty they get when they lose. Totally worth it.
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You rarely ever see top tier players vs. top tier players, that would be too epic I guess. Nope, always a team of average lighthouse virgin players vs. top tier players on the lighthouse virgins lighthouse match. Trials is rigged, and proof is plainly obvious. Pro vs. Pro ? I'd pay just to watch that. So many videos of pros pub stomping, meh.
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Lol I go flawless every week. I see no problem with the system. People just need to get better
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U have very good points. Trials imo isn't worth it at all. For destiny to be a competitive game is a joke. The balance is way off still and its been 3ish years
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I tried to get all three characters to the lighthouse in year 1 every week. I barely played trials in year 2 and tried maybe once in year because of how toxic it is. On some level I don't like missing out on a part of the endgame, but as it stands now I couldn't care less if I play trials again the way it looks now. It's way too frustrating for mediocre rewards.
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Edited by sharkhunter81: 12/23/2016 6:05:19 PMI think if you put extra rewards for the flawless players that go flawless in another bracket it will create the same situation. If the rewards are less substantial, like an emblem or something, no big deal, but if you drop super awesome shaders and better loot for the tiered system, people will still be wanting that loot and it's the same circle of I want it, it's not fair I can't ever achieve that will continue. I think a tiered system would work, but not if the loot at the very top was anything more than an emblem. I think that just going back to year one trials mm would make a huge differnce. There is no question that trials needs a desperate overhaul. Soon. Like last year. Like...it's not dying, it's dead. Show it and the community that wants to play it and love it, some love.
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Card matchmaking is good, people who are on their last win play against others on their last win. Seems fair to me. Also there isn't a million carries and stuff going on don't hype it up like that. Also you watched one streamer on twitch then so don't base your results from there. Also getting shaders and emblems for bragging rights? You're kidding right; dear god I hope so. I'm playing people who are better than average for a chance at a emblem or shader to brag? No I want weapons, armor that is God tier. I could care less about shaders I already have good ones for both.