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11/13/2016 11:05:57 PM
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Let me see if I got this straight...
In 2008, the US elected Obama based on a message of change.
Then (I think I heard that it was 2010, which would make sense in the mid-terms), Republicans try to stop a lot of stuff Obama tries to change.
Then, the population gets disgruntled with the Democrats in power who are unable to enact much change because of Republican obstructionism.
And now, the Electoral College is poised to elect a Republican to power with a Republican House and Senate. Presumably many of the same Republicans who tried to stop Obama's changes.
This man and his party are conservative, the very definition of which is someone who wishes to conserve the status quo.
And they were promoted to this position on a message of... change?
Is that about right or have I grossly oversimplified this?
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I'm gonna save work and say grossly oversimplified.
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1 ReplyNo silly. The change that Obama wanted was the $20 in his pocket. Oh, and the money for a gazillion vacations
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Edited by woupseaa: 11/13/2016 11:17:48 PMTrump is not conservative at all lol, but he's not liberal either. His idea of change is to fix the corruption occurring in the establishment and to fix all of the catastrophes that Obama started. He's already fixed many of these, and he's not even in office yet. I'm already sick of winning so much. Thank god we didn't vote for Hillary. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/217877611/0/0
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Edited by Odd Ball M4AE4: 11/14/2016 10:48:12 PMObama's "change" was to "...fundamentally change America...", which he did, causing our economy to tank. His desired "change" was to break down America so we wouldn't be better than anyone else.
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7 RepliesYou got a few things wrong. First and foremost not all change is positive change. Obama followed through on his message of change, it just so happens not everyone agreed with his changes. Second Republicans obstructed Obama because their constituents opposed what Obama was doing. That's politics and in that capacity they were right to represent the interests of their voters. Given the opportunity Democrats will obstruct as much as they can as they have before. Third you don't seem to understand conservatism. Conservatism is not about rejecting change its about building toward slow gradual change through consensus rather than coercion and force. last and not least Trump is not a conservative. Many of his supporters will freely admit this, some will even like it and tout it out as a sign of being above partisanship or ideology. Some of trumps biggest detractors have been conservative pundits like Ben Shapiro who to this day still insist Trump is not a real conservative. And he is probably right because if one looks at trumps history hes switched parties 5 times and more often then not maintained center-left policy positions. in fact currently just going off of what are his official policy positions via his website he is actually more left-wing than Hillary on some issues like trade for example, Hillarys trade stance had less regulation and was far more in line with what a typical conservative values as the "Free Market" while trumps is decidedly more protectionist. If the media were more ideologically liberal than they are partisan biased they might actually report this.
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For starters Democrats had enough control of congress when obama started to get things done. But really Democrats are WAY TOO radical now a days. If you allowed Democrats full control the borders would be open to anyone, guns would be confiscated, free speech would be gone(Shit they basically did that anyway), Military would be weak, welfare would be increased, Taxpayer funded college, Obamacare, etc etc etc You simply cant let Democrats enact THEIR change. Republicans are a lot more...........Conservative when it comes to change.
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5 Replies[quote]In 2008, the US elected Obama based on a message of change.[/quote] No, it was based on the fact that Obama was black [quote]Then (I think I heard that it was 2010, which would make sense in the mid-terms), Republicans try to stop a lot of stuff Obama tries to change.[/quote] Yeah [quote]Then, the population gets disgruntled with the Democrats in power who are unable to enact much change because of Republican obstructionism.[/quote] No, Obama gets his shit done through executive orders. The population gets mad because criticising the government instantly means you're a racist bigot who deserves to be doxxed [quote]And now, the Electoral College is poised to elect a Republican to power with a Republican House and Senate. Presumably many of the same Republicans who tried to stop Obama's changes.[/quote] Yeah, although those people are all going to be kicked out and voted out just like many are projected to be [quote]This man and his party are conservative, the very definition of which is someone who wishes to conserve the status quo.[/quote] Trump =\= conservative at all Trump is the bane of the GOP Conservative doesn't mean status quo, it means traditionalism with respect to the Constitution as it was originally interpreted [quote]And they were promoted to this position on a message of... change? Is that about right or have I grossly oversimplified this?[/quote] You just don't understand our politics at all
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1. As said below, Dems held the majority for a lot of Obama's terms. And 2. Not all change is good change. The aca for instance. Hopefully that will be changed back.
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3 RepliesYou realize the Republicans didn't hold the majority of power in Congress until the beginning of 2015, right? This whole "obstructionism throughout Obama's presidency" is utter garbage. The Democrats held the majority from 2007-2015.
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1 ReplyEdited by Unicorn Goo: 11/14/2016 4:16:53 PMDemocratic majority in both the House of Representatives and the Senate from 2009-2011. Please know your sh!t before posting
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False, nada, falso, nah, nope, definitely need to revise.
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Yo this guy answered your question, why didn't you respond? https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/217983568/0/0/1
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Obama was a shit president but he's my favorite person....he's gonna be the next host of family feud or be on dancing with the stars
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2 Replies[quote]Let me see if I got this straight...[/quote] You definitely didn't.
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1 ReplyI think the change they want to do is change the changes that Obama changed when he was able to do the changing as president and now it's gonna change the changes made to these changes that were changed.
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Edited by pl0785: 11/14/2016 2:04:28 AMTrump is hardly a Republican and he isnt conservative at all. So, no.
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Edited by Catty_Wampus22: 11/14/2016 9:02:01 AMMany of which Obama failed to follow through on was on purpose. For example - He campaigned being critical of Bush for putting lobbyists and industry execs in charge of those industries and said they "won't have a job in his Whitehouse!" Then they did and he shrugged and said "they're people, too" He campaigned being critical of all the secret, closed door meetings The Bush administration had with lobbyists and industry when developing policy and regulations for them, he even promised each time there was any such meeting under his presidency it'd be streamed live on the Internet and tv. Instead he held SEVERAL secret, closed door meetings with lobbyists and industry when developing their regulations and declared 'national security' as the reason because clearly our empire would fall if al qaeda knew what was said during the talk over coal ash regulations...... Obama campaigned saying "Understand this: If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain when I’m in the White House, I’ll put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself — I’ll walk on that picket line with you as president of the United States of America.” --Barack Obama, November 3, 2007. Then Governor Scott Walker did just that in Wisconsin while he was president and he did.....-blam!- all. Obama campaigned saying NAFTA was a huge mistake, unfair and needed to be changed. Then minutes from a secret meeting with Canada were leaked where the Canadians said Obama's advisors swear this is all just rhetoric to get the nomination and doesn't reflect his true policy. Democrats cried it was a lie and propaganda.....until Obama won the nomination and suddenly he LOVES NAFTA, there's nothing wrong with it, no changes needed, he simply got carried away on the campaign trail. Then let's get into the 1st half ofn his 1st term when the democrats had the majority and the democrats had a public option in the bill Obama himself told them to take it out and supported the insurance industries still running things. Or we can talk about Bush's last half of his last term when the democrats took control by complaining about Bush, the war, the illegal wire taps....and what happened when they gained control? They rolled over and still approved everything he wanted. Those illegal wire taps, though surely they were tough in that with all their campaign rhetoric? Nah, instead they voted to rewrite FISA making it legal, even retroactively and gave the cell phone carriers immunity in it. Tl;dr it's a scam, but people are too partisan to see it because it's only the other side that does bad things, their side is perfect and really does care about them. LOL
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What Obama didn't do policaily he changed socially and America has still changed enough in 8 years that it is time to change it back and make our institutions successful.
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I've been thinking the same thing. If Hillary won, we would be getting the same thing and nothing would change. With Trump, we will get a lot of change.
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1 ReplyMeanwhile House reelection rate this year was 97%. In the Senate it's 90%. https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/reelect.php There was a net change of 6 out of 435 seats in the House. That's just over 1%. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2016 Americans seem to have a funny idea of what "change" means, or don't understand how their own government functions.
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45 RepliesEdited by Mülli_der_Müllmann: 11/14/2016 12:04:34 PMI still can't wrap my head around the idea that a lot of americans don't want social healthcare. I mean why the hell not? It's totally normal in europe and there's is not really anybody who argues against it. Weird.
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Yeah, he had absolute control to make that change from 2009-11 when he had both chambers of Congress. He made change. People immediately rejected that change because it sucked and was done without compromise. Republicans were elected to fight his shitty change. They did. Obama refused to compromise. Republicans refused to give Obama carte blanche. Nothing got done except establishment bullshittery. Trump wins on grounds of messing up establishment bullshittery. And hopefully forcing policy changes in which both sides compromise (because even Republicans aren't going to go along with everything he wants, so all sides are going to have to compromise.).
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No you got it pretty right. Though Trump doesn't seem like a conservative the more I read about him. Doesn't change the fact I don't care for him
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7 RepliesTrump wants to change the status quo. Republican =/= Conservative Democrat =/= Liberal
