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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 10/24/2016 6:11:58 AM
76

Do you like or hate hard mode Wrath of the Machine?

Yes, hard mode is a fun challenge

393

No, hard mode is bad

63

Haven't run it

305

So after having completed HM WoTM twice this week, I'm curious how people feel about the changes to "up the difficulty". Do you like what Bungie did with it or do you feel it was poorly done. Personally I don't really care for a number of the changes starting with the first real boss fight. We discussed on the last podcast that we wondered how they'd make such an easy raid more difficult and my hope was they'd be creative. Instead they decided on the first loot boss to just drag out the time it takes to drop his shield so ridiculously long that the odds of small mistakes by players increases. It's really sad because the normal mode fight (though not super imaginative either - take down shield while never really feeling threatened by the actual boss and then unloading with impunity) was fun enough. The general consensus from my friends is this fight just sucks now. It's not really any more difficult, but it's 100% more obnoxious. The Zamboni is still the Zamboni. Had an interesting conversation with RWG about it and she pointed out how disjointed that fight is from the rest of the raid and I agree, but the end just doesn't get old. This fight had the only genuinely shocking and really awesome moment of hard mode when the Devil Walker drops. Unfortunately this fight was easy AF before and remains so. The Walker doesn't need to be killed, is not even 1/100th as deadly as the one in the Taniks strike and is cool to see drop in, but ultimately requires zero effort to pass. The Zamboni is an interesting fight. It's a really cool set piece, but Bungie decided that instead of building in more interesting challenge mechanics to just give it a time limit. Artificial difficulty at its worst (even more so than Bungie's beloved elemental shields) If anything this fight is easier on Hard Mode as there seemed to be less splicers in front of the Zamboni since the Walker was there. Then we have Aksis stage one. This to me is the worst of the raid. Okay the regular fight is a cakewalk, but I haven't liked Bungie's blocking off areas of play since RoI released with traps and turrets and the turrets here are just dumb. If you don't want players populating sections of maps, design better maps. Throwing in traps to force play away is cheap and again it didn't make the fight any more difficult in the end, it just made it less fun and kinda obnoxious. Finally Aksis phase two. This is the only one I thought worked. Granted they didn't do anything spectacular other than making us kill more servitors and throw more bombs, but I think it is actually a more challenging fight now and that difficulty is based on actual mechanics and not artificial shit like the endless bombs that needed thrown on boss one or the stupid turrets. Phase two requires communication, coordination and everyone pulling their weight and up until DPS phase, I think it shined in normal mode and hard mode is even better. Unfortunately there's the "until DPS phase" qualifier because unfortunately Destiny raid bosses themselves have been relegated to backdrops that do exactly jack and shit on their own and then just stand and take a beating for a brief time. Phase two sorta gives more immersion with the actual boss by making us do the empowered slams, but then it's the same "everyone DPS the boss" I would love to see Bungie design a raid boss that didn't involve just dealing with endless adds until we can kill the boss for a bit. I want to see a boss that actually -blam!-ing fights us (Taniks has called you out, guardian. Now watch him run away from you in the ways of old). I want to see boss fights where the boss attacks, defends, moves about and targets. Give them abilities and tactics and make us have to use our own to counter. We have weapons, grenades, supers... The chess matches could be epic, but instead it's kill adds, DPS boss ad nausea. I know it probably sounds like I don't like the raid and that's not true, I still think it's a fun place to run through and I like running it, but where normal mode was like the best strike in the game, hard mode is a nightfall with shit modifiers to make it difficult by just making it obnoxious. Ultimately I'm sure we'll still play it a lot, but where King's Fall could get past the kill adds, DPS boss rut with drastically unique encounters built around them, WoTM just doesn't have the same depth or range. The fights (minus the Zamboni) are all so similar and like I said, it's a really cool 6 player strike, but I was hoping hard mode would make it a bit more.

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  • I like it, i think its a fun and new raid mechanic. I like this one more than kings fall and Crota. Vog is the best raid still.

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  • Vog will always be my favorite, and I did enjoy kf up until the jumping puzzle( mainly cause I suck at it) probably the one raid I ran the most up until said jumping puzzles. Nothing like fn the whole team up cause you suck at jumping. I haven't killed the main the boss yet in wotm. But I did enjoy this raid much more than kf... Due to the non jumping, lol.

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  • That second boss is easy but those doors.... Everything else is ok

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  • Jeez dude. You're one of those guys that always finds the worst in everything. How about you appreciate what's good about the raid instead of saying garbage like "This fight is terrible because um...... it's a lazy move from bungie". People like you are just depressing

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    • Kings Fall will always be my favorite. WoTM hard mode is cool but I have mixed feelings

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      • WOTM is a short fun raid. Shoot, move and communicate. The best part is you can use any load out and still have success.

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      • 1. Vault of Glass 2. Kings Fall 3. Croats End 4. Wrath of the Machine 5. Prison of Elders (House of Wolves)

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        • It's fine. Challenging but perfectly doable and, with an experienced and coordinated team, much easier.

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        • 2
          I find it strange that the first boss, Vosik, presents the biggest issue to players. Other than that, I didn't find hard mode to be that much harder than normal.

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        • Pretty disappointed with the Raid all together..kinda vanilla

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        • I think WotM is leagues beyond KF in fun factor. It's the perfect mix between mechanics, DPS, teamwork and overall length. While I loved KF, there's no denying that a lot of the difficulty lied in waiting for phases to start/end, and the fear of messing up in between.

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          • Hard mode raid is garbage wasn't impressed at all

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          • Edited by iDovahBear: 10/25/2016 7:22:33 AM
            I've beaten Vosiks but didn't get past Zambony (pardon spelling.) I'm restarting a second Titan to try and catch my Light up. I'm on a struggle bus for Light Level 390+. I was expecting more of a mechanical change like the addition of Light Eater Knights in Hard Mode. But I guess there just wasn't a solid parallel that made the fight seem more difficult by complication, but just intensity. I mean the door change on Vosiks was pretty cute, but doesn't change it by anything significant. Some of us were already sliding into the doors for dramatic effect or just the sake of it. And a Fallen Walker during Zambony is brutal but effective. Lots of people seemed to catch on quickly that you can just disable the legs for the sake of getting past it, which gave the mechanic a twist. As far as Aksis, I haven't even touched it, but apparently his phases are mostly trimmed and accelerated with how the Servitors spawn? I guess there was a change, but mostly it sounds negligible from hearsay. It mostly just feels like they raised the Light. Certainly made it harder for me. Hopefully I can get it done Week 2, it's kind of humiliating I couldn't get it done week one. I need to #GitGud But I did feel like they really fell short of the grandeur that was King's Fall.

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              Holy wall of text, Batman!

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              • You still trying LOL Souls give up man no one will hire you :D You don't deserve to be hired by Bungie at all :D

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              • Aksis phase 2 we ended up five manning because a player quit on us and we were all under 390 light. I have mixed feelings about hard mode. I think Vosik is the toughest opponent, less margin for error with the ad spawns. It's a simplistic raid, I was hoping hard mode would have brought more fights in those long walk ways. I'll continue to play it but I don't see why LFG is being so picky on whom they bring in. If you're above 380 you'll be fine.

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                • Personally I thought the whole new raid was a big let down, it's more work to Enjoy it than play it... I've only done it twice and won't do it again hopefully, I don't care about a year 3 moments of triumph, I won't do it. Plus all the weapons are Re skinned and have really lame perks. As well as no elemental primaries.

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                • Haven't tried it yet, I just feel no need to as I am 395 without it....

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                • I don't see a "hard mode is too easy" option >.> seriously though the only tough part is vosik. The siege engine walker is a pushover. And Aksis has weak ass turrets only during phase 1.

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                  • Edited by cViking: 10/25/2016 12:32:54 AM
                    I really am not sure what you expect, hard mode raids always only ad 1 additional mechanic to the fight in an effort to increase difficulty. A side from this no re-spawn's does up the difficulty as well. For example, look at kings fall, Warpriest was the same except he acquired taken abilities. Golgoroth was that same accept one player got the buff that blows up like a cursed thrall. Oryx was the only real change to the fight with the 4 knights spawning. Vosiks fight - you have to throw 6 charges and monitors are harder to kill and door are closed most of the way making them slightly harder to get in(for most players sliding in is easy). If you hit all 6 charges Vosik's sheild takes the same amount of time to take down as on normal. Zamboni - I agree this felt like the same fight, adds just kill you a little bit faster. Aksis phase 1 - adding the turrets is fine as it adds in the difficulty of always having to pay attention to the turret. Makes you think about something else during the fight. I personally would of like to see the phase go 3-6-9 with the charges you have to throw with no increase of time. This would force your team to communicate more and work a little faster. Aksis phase 2 - I felt like this fight was nice, more servitors to kill with the time to throw charges seeming to be the same. I do feel like the Turrets should still be there during this fight. Also I feel that Aksis should continue to shoot at us during the damage phase. Keep in mind that Bungie designed this raid for the casual player. they wanted it to be a challenge for the casual player but be able to be beat by any one. I think challenge mode will introduce some more difficulty for the players who feel the raid is to easy. I would like to see something such as aksis phase 2 for challenge mode be along the lines of having to super charge every teleport. At the end of the day I feel this raid is very fun to play.

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                    • Edited by Dampfanator: 10/25/2016 1:35:58 AM
                      This is almost as bad as the review IGN put up for the Walking Dead last night..

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                      • Love hard mode

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                      • Like all the hm before small changes, challenge mode we will see

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                      • I love the raid, but I absolutely hate the people who try to raid when they can't. If you can't survive a 10 minute encounter, you should understand that raiding might not be for you.

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                      • Edited by PRINCE_ALI_1985: 10/24/2016 11:47:07 PM
                        I'm just going to bump. My opinion on Destiny raids would require me to wright 800+ words and I'm too tired. My short opinion on WotM is that they nailed it a them suited for the fallen.

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                      • I've got to say, I'm enjoying the raid in general but I most certainly agree with your analysis in large part. Here is my take. It absolutely makes no sense that Vosik is harder than the last boss and on top of that, the one fun mechanic added via sliding under the door is completely ruined for me because its so buggy and nonsensical. I died trying to get a last minute slide(thats the movie moment I think they were going for) because I hit an invisible wall. Before the next attempt, I sat and tried my best to reproduce it, or figure out what causes it but was unable to get it to not let me slide. I'm left thinking that its just another random thing Bungie added, on purpose to further randomize the fight. The Zamboni fight, in my opinion is really awesome. It requires good team work and doesn't fall back on the normal, wait and DPS the boss trope. Yes, its a bit easy but I think throwing in the walker is a step in the right direction, concerning "what to add" in a hard mode raid. Aksis is a good fight overall but I completely agree, the re-spawining turret is just lazy. I also agree that the stationary boss thing is a bit derivative at this point. I mean how awesome would it have been if Aksis would have crawled out of mid and ran around for a bit, attacking players! Good post Sols

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