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10/20/2016 2:49:59 PM
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Social games don't always function socially.
In theory, Destiny is a social game. But it's not, is it? If it were, things like the Forge would function better. We wouldn't need to trick the system into pairing us together by walking down the corridor and back again, it would be automatic (and no, putting in an offering doesn't usually spawn people to your server). We wouldn't need outside sources to find groups, a system would have been integrated in game.
What I'm saying is, Destiny is not multiplayer, it is single player with [i]some[/i] multiplayer functionality. Honestly, we're lucky strikes and crucible have matchmaking.
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1. It is, actually. But many people are anti-social....or socially awkward. Or have life situations that don't lend themselves well to co-op online gaming. 2. The situation with the Forge is 80% a coding problem (CoO suffers from the same problem) and 20% a game design problem (the Forge is located in a place where there is little reason to go UNLESS you want to play the Forge....) 3. Sorry, Wrong. Destiny as a little bit of everything to offer.....which is why it is so successful. But that beside the point The point here is that the Forge---whatever its matchmaking issues are at a coding level----was designed to be multiplayer....and to be a higher-risk/higher reward activity compared to other pub events.
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Edited by ASASINSQRL: 10/20/2016 3:12:35 PMI'm not saying it's not meant as a multiplayer area. What I'm saying is it's not designed well enough to be a multiplayer area. I'll say it again. Destiny is not a multiplayer game. It has multiplayer features, yes. [b]But[/b] it is not designed in a way that encourages use of its multiplayer features. Why do we not have an lfg system in game? Why must we rely on outside programs to form parties? For -blam!- sake, even Diablo 2 from way back in 1999 had an efficient way to form parties. In game, if you're wondering. So yeah. Until Destiny is more proficient at bringing us together, it will be, despite what you may believe, a single player game.
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/20/2016 3:33:43 PMAfter having played The Division, I've gotten to experience why. Its called Tragedy of the Commons. Early in our history, people who had herds of animals used to be able to graze them on the village commons. But since no one owned the property personally, no one had any investment in protecting them. In fact it was to their personal, short-term benefit to have their flocks/herds OVERgraze the land...and most people wound up doing it....and the land eventually failed IOW. Bungie wants you to have to expend effort to find people to play with, because you the effort you put in will cause you to INVEST in and value those relationships. So you wind up with a stronger community as a whole. But if the game does all the work for you....like the Commons....people will tend to behave badly. They'll exploit the game an the people in it for short term personal gain....because there are few if any personal consequences for doing it. So you wind up with a game that a weak community...that is often toxic and divisive. Because its everyone for themelves. The Division had in-game matchmaking for every activity....and as a result you had no reason to expend any effort in fiding people to play with...and so no one formed any long-term bonds with anyone else. So that game, right now, basically has NO community....and what little community it does have is self-centered and toxic.
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But the majority of people in Destiny use only matchmaking. The % of raiders, NF completers, and ToO people is woefully small compared to IB, Strikes, and daily/weekly activities.
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True. But to the extent that Bungie ***doesn't**** offer matchmaking for certain kinds of content, has lead to a more unified, more cohesive...and imo....more positive community than you see in most online, multiplayer games.
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Matchmaking isn't the reason that game failed. It has A LOT of problems, matchmaking ain't one of them. Are you seriously trying to tell me Bungie doesn't expand multiplayer functions so we're more motivated when we find groups by other means? Nice story, but no.
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Read the post. I said that the matchmaking is (part) of the reason why the game has a venomous "community". I didn't say that's why it failed. The MM system actually worked VERY well. But the fact that it worked so well...had its own consequences. People only value those things that they had to work for to achieve.
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And since lfg requires work, it's more satisfying when you finish a task. This has to be the weirdest argument I've ever come across on this subject. You know, you're right. It is satisfying when I complete a raid or whatever. But then I think: did I really need to spend an hour looking for people, navigate to Friends on the console dashboard, decipher all the x's and underscores in some guy's name, wait for an invite, spend another hour wiping, hearing various people rant, see people get kicked, wait for more people to join (any of you have someone on your friends list who would join), fail the last boss, give up for the day, try it all again tomorrow, and maybe succeed. Real fun. In Diablo 2 you just made a new game with the tag Mephisto Run and waited seven seconds for the party to fill up. I miss those days...
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Missing the point. How often do you add the people you find on LFG to do a raid to your friends list....after having a good experience..... ...versus adding people whom you got matchmade to. Just asking.
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Is that relevant? I have in fact partied with people I met through lfg and done various things, usually things that require lfg. That doesn't mean it's worth the hassle, just that it was more convenient to invite those people instead of going back to lfg. Sometimes they have shit going on. Sometimes they don't.
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Yes, its relevant. Whether you agree with it or not, there is a reason behind why Bungie does this.
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Other than not wanting to put in the time, cash and effort, no, there's probably not. I bet we'll have more mm options in Destiny 2 though.
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When it comes to end-game content? I'll take that bet. Because the MM options for end-game content for The Division were an unqualified failure. An EPIC failure as a matter of fact.
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It doesn't have to be that way for every game. It's all about how you design it. If Destiny 2 gets it right, end game matchmaking won't be a problem.
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I don't think there IS a "getting it right". Because the content in Destiny that is matchmade suffers from the exact same problems. People quitting. People going AFK or expecting to be carried without participating. People getting kicked from the team in order to deny them rewards that they've earned. So I think this is a human nature problem, and not a matchmaking problem. .... given Bungie's views on this, I think they'd rather have fewer people participating in the end game....but kept it a more positive experience for those who do.....as opposed to wider participation, but having the well poisoned like that.
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Go play Diablo 2s endgame and you'll see how wrong you are. The modern viewpoint is jaded and diluted by games like Destiny, these rushed projects that have more cons than pros. There is a way to get it right. Human reaction is dictated by the mechanics. When the mechanics induce frustration, well...
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Played Diablo 2 off and on for 10 years. ...and NONE of the content in Diablo 2 required the level of team coordination that a Destiny raid or nightfall srike takes. Not even the level of coordination need in Challenge of Elders or even some of Destiny's high level strikes. Human behavior is far too comple to be dumbed down in the way that you've done. Yes, you can INFLUENCE people's behavior in subtle ways by how you present a situation to them. But you will never control it ...and the irony is that---if you want people to behave in pro-social ways-----what Bungie is doing is one of the best ways to go about doing that.
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They are two very different games, I suppose. Almost complete lack of social functions is pro-social? We have mic capability. Cool. I guess you mean in the way we need to communicate during, say, a raid. Communication is always useful, after all. I don't believe, however, a raid couldn't be completed with a team put together with automatic matchmaking. What is a raid team found on LFG but a bunch of random people getting together in search of a common goal? Just because you were invited doesn't mean you'll be good, it only means you were in the right place at the right time. Groups made with LFG still fail (often). The only difference between groups made with LFG and groups made with automatic matchmaking is, groups made with automatic matchmaking will fail more often, because that system will be used more. Advertise any requirement on LFG you want. It will not matter. Any group you make has the potential to fail. And it's not like automatic matchmaking is the only option. A board design could be implemented, one where you are able to type out the parameters and what you'd like, similar to how LFG is now. The difference being you wouldn't need to use the console dashboard to add people to your Friends list. There are lots of things that could be done, but for some reason, none of those things have been done. There is no reason for it other than lack of trying.
