When you've done this you can buff HC accuracy, give pulses back their 2.0 damage, and give sniper rifles their HANDLING back.
[b]Here are some numbers and a reddit thread of someone kind and hardworking enough to figure them out (it wasn't me lol). For reference: a HC is .83s with a single crit. Players do not pace shots, they go for this then run away.
This makes a low ROF auto kill in .8 seconds with 6 crits and 1 body: now it's usable if you're accurate, and can fight HCs!
it makes medium kill in .8 with 8 crit one body: now it's usable if you're very accurate, and you can fight HCs![/b]
it makes the doctrine kill in .67 with all crit.. so lower the bodyshot damage of this a bit to stop it being the only auto worth using, like you nerfed spare change
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/50ntcf/state_of_auto_rifles_reintroduce_the_15_critical/?ref=search_posts
If you do this and the other buffs listed above, then people will use primaries again.
[b]No, this will not turn the game into CoD, and no one serious about this should think that.[/b] Characters in Destiny move too fast for Halo kill times, especially since we spawn with 1HKO weapons. To stop these being power weapons and resulting in frustrating, lopsided gameplay, there is a minimum lethality primaries need to have. They currently fall short.
December to april proved that primaries post pulse rifle nerf were too weak to cope with TG, shadestep, 3x heavy a game and the other terrible features left in it. It also proved that trying to constantly remove special ammo for the game only made it more asymmetrical and it felt bad to play.
The reintroduction to UR showed players at large cannot deal with shotgun warriors. The constant cries sniper nerfs showed that we wanted to be able to challenge by moving and attacking with primaries, and getting the first shot off should give us kills.
Both of these showed the need for more powerful primaries. We instead got nerfs to everthing else, and buffs that didn't change ANY TTKs.
[b]I'm just telling you guys now, because once the Matador 64s rolling in this entire sub is going to be full of 'nerf shotguns' but that isn't the answer. Movement and the lack of being able to punish it with primaries is.[/b]
Primaries need to keep up with the pace of the game, and people who are bad at shooters should be dying to primaries a lot. You can't help that, stop trying to help that, it makes the game worse for everyone who is experienced with it.
Thanks for your time.
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We've heard you guardian. We will remove the extra crit damage. Thanks for the tips - bungie nerf squad
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Edited by Killlerschaf: 9/24/2016 5:51:21 AMFully agreed. All primaries need a substantial buff. I'm currently thinking about writing an essay called "The Destiny effect: did you ever wonder what's the exact opposite of power creep?"
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Edited by Fur Hammerlock: 9/23/2016 11:56:38 PMNo, no no, no. Should Autos and Pulses be buffed across the lacking Archetypes? Yes. Should the unused Hand Cannon Archetyes be buffed? Yes. Should all Hand Cannons lose bloom? No. This would simply break the game once again. Back in House of Wolves, Hand Cannons - most specificially Thorn - dominated the meta for [b]SIX MONTHS[/b] before it was finally fixed. If Hand Cannons lose their bloom effect and have 100% accuracy, their damage needs to be lowered by about 27% (med/high impact archetypes, low impact left alone). Take Eyasluna, for example. It's a 3HK only needing [b]a single headshot and two body shots[/b], that combined with it having a faster firing rate than the 4HK Scouts (Excluding MIDA) is just pure broken. You want more proof? Look at the MLG scene. After Grasp of Malok got banned (obvious Pulse outlier), the only weapon any of the Pros are using is Eyasluna and other 3HK Hand Cannons, and they're dominant [b]with bloom[/b], but you want to remove bloom and think that giving Autos a barely noticeable precision buff will change the meta? You're silly, and so is anyone who believes this. Hand Cannons excluding the Low Impact Archetype are barely balanced with Bloom in the game - removing the Bloom effect would invalidate Scout Rifles and Pulse Rifles, and Auto Rifles would still be invalid making Hand Cannons the only viable Primary weapon if Bloom were removed. ---------------- As for your post about specials ruling the meta right now, that won't change - even if Primaries are buffed significantly. Shotguns and Fusions are favoured (mostly Shotguns) because of Destiny's natural mobility, it makes it too easy to close distances unlike other FPS as, say, Battlefield or Call of Duty. The nature of Destiny in itself favours specials except in extreme cases like House of Wolves' Thorn/Last Word
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Edited by Kone19ps: 9/23/2016 7:15:24 PMNothing should be reliably below 0.8 ttk except snipers and shotguns which should retain their nerfs to balance that
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So... Nerf fusion rifles?
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Bumpity f*cking bump. I agree so much it almost physically hurts me
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I like your post but the snipers can get everything back as long as they keep the current version of flinch. I'm down for primaries getting a buff but if hand cannons have completed accuracy with the range they have now then it will just be come another hand cannon meta. The should not be able to challenge a scout or pulse in their intended range. They should have thorn area auto rifle range drop-off. Like I'm talking hella range drop off. Autos honestly are pretty fine. Maybe a slight damage buff but nothing drastic. Maybe another 2 percent buff. Scouts could use a 2% hip fire accuracy buff Oh fusions could use a slight range buff to add consistency to bolts landing via travel speed
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If you do that, you need to drop stability by a large percentage. ARs are way too easy to aim at distance.
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Pulses already shred. Precise auto users melt foes. Hand cannons need bloom or else they become a scout rifle with extra flinch to enemies, and snipers take skill now
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Nope. Snipers need to stay nerfed. Pulses need no extra face wrecking damage. Hc do need bloom removed, and autos, high impact, and to an extent mediums need more crit damage.
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I don't even like auto rifles and I'd like to see this happen. A blanket increase to the range of all primary weapons (except UR of course) would be nice too.
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Agreed
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Nailed it. Primaries need to be your [i]primary [/i]weapon for majority of encounters, that's why they're called a [i]primary[/i]. Right now they're too weak to compete, and nerfs are not the way to fix that. We've tried nerfing things. Many times in fact, and it hasn't worked, [i]I wonder what other method we could try instead of nerfing everything...[/i]
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Bump!
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Agreed.
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Edited by Angelis101: 9/22/2016 1:52:38 PMDude this post is amazing. Thank you whoever took the time for the math. I agree with part of the sniper nerf. The ability for a mid impact sniper to take out supers was a bit much. But the handling should come back. I can still snipe just fine but I'm sure others feel the pain. Primaries are far to weak. Right now I feel like I have to use a hand cannons or bust because nothing else is consistent enough. Maybe grasp but I haven't been lucky enough to get a good roll on one yet. Also really good shotgun players have always owned the crucible. And weak primaries only reinforced that play style along with shade step and the buff to juggernaut shield a while back.