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originally posted in:The Ashen Conflux
Edited by Spooky Doggo:
9/18/2016 4:10:02 PM
42
New Theory: Exos
(First off: credit to users A Rising Wind and Powder2121 for basically inspiring this theory).
[b]What's up you glorious bastards!?[/b] Do you know how long its been since we've had some [b]real, [/b] [i]brand-spankin new[/i] lore to look at!? September! [b]Of last year[/b]! Boy let me tell you it is great to be back!
"What are you talking about?" Your probably not-insane mind must be asking. To which my totally-insane mind would reply: " [b]ONLY THE BIGGEST POTENTIAL BREAKTHROUGH IN EXO LORE WE'VE EVER SEEN![/b]" You're skeptical, I'm sure: after all, Rise of Iron hasn't even come out yet! How could we already have some groundbreaking lore reveal? Well, first off, let me say that this is just a theory, and it (as of now) has no backing in the lore; however, it is the fact that the lore doesn't [b]dispute[/b] this theory in any way that has me really riled up!
So here's the theory: we know Exo's minds come from human minds, yeah? Well, nothing in the lore says that an Exo [i]and the human its mind was cloned off of[/i] can't both be alive [i]at the same time[/i]. Due to Exo memory wipes, neither one would know they were basically just talking to themselves!
Where am I getting this? [b]Owl Sector[/b]! Well, more accurately, user A Rising Wind got some info on Cayde-6 from Owl Sector. Here's a link to his thread: [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/213113457?sort=0&page=0]Patient E is Cayde[/url].
In this thread, ARW basically proves that Cayde was once an in-debt dude named Jun, who was experimented on by Clovis Bray to become one of the first Exos.
Here's where things get interesting: I have a picture of Jun. That's right: [i]human Cayde-6[/i]. How? Back in the early days of Destiny (I'm talking pre-Year One here) I purchased a book titled The Art of Destiny. To my knowledge, it is still available in the Bungie store, and is a great read. Anyway, the concept art in the book dates way back to when Destiny was just an idea: so far back, there is art from [i]before Exos had been added into the game[/i]. And it is within these pictures that I found the following beauty: [url=https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2583142/Art_of_Destiny_122.0.jpg]Early Vanguard[/url]
That fellow on the right with the bomb rifle? He's labeled as "Jun: Human Hunter Vanguard." So I immediately assumed: this is human Cayde.
Then user Powder2121 had the [i]audacity[/i] to say that "No, that's Andal Brask." Many people also thought that, and I would have too had I not seen the picture labeled as "Jun." Then Powder2121 linked an image from the Arms and Armament book (from special edition Vanilla Destiny): [url=http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/destinypedia/images/9/9a/Destiny_Andal_Brask.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/198?cb=2015041617454]Look Familiar?[/url]
It should, because this is the same picture with a different name! (Cue X-files music).
Powder2121 then asked: "What if Brask and Cayde are the same person?" That's not possible of course, because [i]Jun[/i] and Cayde are already the same person, and Cayde personally knew Brask when he was alive! Unless....
Bear with me here: assume Jun and Andal Brask are the same person. People change names all the time in the Destiny universe, especially in the Books of Sorrow. Its kind of a theme at this point. Say the experiment on Jun just cloned his mind, and didn't kill Jun. Cayde-1 is born. Cayde-1 gets his memory wiped 6 times over the course of his lifetime. Jun changes his name to Andal Brask for some reason, and becomes the Hunter Vanguard. Cayde-6 and Andal Brask become friends, [i]neither knowing that they are essentially the same person[/i], due to Exo memory wipes. Brask can't have Cayde's memories, and Cayde can't have his due to the wipes.
There is nothing in the lore to refute this. As far as I am aware, this is entirely possible within the Destiny lore universe. I encourage you to try and refute or prove this theory.
Oh. And thanks for reading.
Edit #1: There has been [i]tons[/i] of arguing over the Andal/Jun thing. One user pointed out that his copy of the Art of Destiny says "Joden," not Jun. There is speculation about book version, book being used, etc. As for me, I do not currently have access to an Art of Destiny book, so if anyone wants to do some quality research, here's where to start.
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Or Bungie changed the name from Jun to Andal Brask, wouldnt surprise me
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It's also possible that "Jun" was a codename for the experiment he was in. Modern day research projects with human subjects (psychology, medical, etc) are required by law to maintain confidentiality of the participants in their research. Most use numbers or very short code names. It could be that 'Jun' was merely andal brask's codename within the experiment that was used to maintain his confidentiality, which would make even more sense if they were copying him (so his copy would come looking)
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Edited by PhraustStryke: 9/19/2016 5:33:00 PMCayde can recall memories back as far as when he was still human. So Cayde can't be a clone. It says so in Cayde's Treasure Island Book. He went to Europa and there he became and Exo. Plus he goes on to say that the "resets" don't wipe memories but instead scrambles them up. A deck of cards being shuffled is how it is stated in the book from Cayde himself. To me it's like defragging a harddrive. The info is still there it's just moved around to save space. I degress my point is that Cayde has always been his own person and not anyone's clone.
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3 RepliesEdited by Wheatley: 9/18/2016 3:31:53 PMAn explanation why his name was changed is because Clovis Bray existed pre-collapse, and at some point Jun died. Later, his ghost revived him (Guardians cannot remember who they were before they died), and he became known as Andal Brask and then became the hunter vanguard.
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4 Replies
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3 RepliesActually. Consider this. The experiment to create the augments for colonists has side effects. The nanotech upgraded the colonists but thee side effect was that the upgrading didn't stop. What if the process actually kept going until all of the subjects cells were replaced with nanotech. You would in effect have the first exo! If Clovis brae then realised what they had and got a warmind to re engineer the nanotech into Siva. The ultimate upgrade for its colonists. Turning them into living, adaptive machines. Complete with all memories and skills for colonising any planet. However the clear mental instability the upgrades caused would likely mean that Clovis did indeed also implement that personality change that one of the researchers wished they could do to patient E. This would have been in the form of the memory wipe. Each time an exo remembers what they were, that everyone they knew and loved is dead and the pain of being turned into a machine they would just have another mental breakdown. Necessitating another wipe. I think the big Clovis brae secret isn't that exos are copies of people. I think they ARE those people!
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9 RepliesEdited by Black Howling: 9/18/2016 11:36:43 AMI doubt they'll go that route, because it would take away from the 'individuality' of being an Exo, not to mention the whole point of them being truly sentient beings. Making them just a flash copy of someone else's memories would make Exos nothing more than confused machines shadowing life. The process of having one's consciousness transferred into a machine body, à la "Ghost in the Shell", is easier to digest, keeps Exos special, and makes far more sense based on whats been going on in the lore around them. And this is me ignoring Cayde's Journal, which all but proves he went through the transition from Human to Exo.
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Or two different people wrote the captions for the different art books and clucked up. The original with the Collector's says Andal Brask. Anything after that is most likely a mistake missed before print.
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3 RepliesI do have a problem and that's with name changing being a theme. The only example I know of is the examples in the books of sorrow. Other than that... Nothing.
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Well, its a nice theory but. i dont think you all have realized this. you have to be DEAD to become a guardian. it doesnt matter if you are a human, exo, or awoken, you have to be dead and you hadto have had a heroic personality or some such thing in life. and your memories of your past life are gone. unless you are an exo, which is what makes them so dang cool. they have fragments of memories and like. impressions. its hard to explain. but yeah. cant be alive to be a guardian. gotta be dead. or at least thats how im almost completely sure it works
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1 ReplyCayde does in fact have memories of his human life
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3 RepliesEdited by randomhero204: 9/18/2016 12:01:22 PMHow come the gunsmith can recall his wipes and past memories? This is some aeon flux type stuff? (Everyone keeps getting cloned and reborn over and over and are all trapped in one last city due to some kind of virus type thing)
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Cayde's reaction to the viruses is almost the exact opposite of Jun's
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Photo confirms it; Worlocks will get staffs and halberds as weapons! Hunters have void bows and titans have flaming hammers (too bad no Mjolnir with the lightning).
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Photo confirms it; Worlocks will get staffs and halberds as weapons! Hunters have void bows and titans have flaming hammers (too bad no Mjolnir with the lightning).
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3 RepliesIs Clovis Bray a person or just the name of the organization? (both?) Also who are all the other Brays? I've heard of Ana and another plus Clovis, but like I said idk for sure what Clovis is.
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15 RepliesOnly one major problem. At first I thought there were two problems, as I happened to see the same comment thread where you got this idea. I think I might've replied to it also, but not positive. I was Going to say that in current lore his name is Andal Brask, not jun. Jun was an old name for him that got replaced when the game came out. But you cleared that up with the name change theory. Of course that brings me to the problem. Exo's were created in the time shortly before the collapse. You could say it was technically golden age, but it was right at the end as exo's were created to combat the darkness. So If Jun/Andal Brask is cayde, that would mean he not only lived through a good portion of the golden age, lived through the collapse, was there at the founding of the last city and the guardian order, somehow acquired a ghost and became a guardian, rose to become a member of the vanguard (which takes time), and was still fairly young. Yes human life spans were increased in the golden age, I believe it said somewhere people were living hundreds of years, but not positive. Either way, this theory is impossible, as Jun/Andal Brask would have lived for over 700 years.
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Doe your last post with the picture. Great detective work. Also great way finding a theory. That was a tricky one. Anyways! This owl sector stuff deff revolves around the war minds, exos, and the vanguard, also the Bray associates.
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1 ReplyIt's not 100 percent proven that that patient is cayde tho. Just cuz he has a large debt doesn't mean other people in the universe didn't have large debts towards the brays. It's a cool theory but Idk how close it is to the truth.
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2 RepliesCayde 6's Timeline: -Born Jun -Changes name to Andal brask -Transfers Mind into Exo known as Cayde 6 -Has exo sex change and becomes The Stranger
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Good theory but how could cayde even be sain knowing this since his a Exo but has no memory of his name his friends and his past just thrown into the world to meet himself and eventually become vanguard
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11 RepliesSo human or Exo, Cayde can't help but lose the bet, ending up as the vanguard both times.. talk about rotten luck.
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Given there's a lot of confusion around the whole Jun/Andal Brask thing, could you post a photo of your art of destiny book?
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Well,he was somebody
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Holy... This is one of the best lore theories I've seen in a long while!
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2 RepliesThe "Art of Destiny" book says "Joden", not "Jun".
