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Edited by PoundLovesYou:
8/31/2016 1:27:28 PM
242
A bad PvPer's experience/take on SBMM - the built in system meant to help players like me...
[i]UPDATE: I just want to thank everyone for contributing to this conversation and for sharing their own experiences and knowledge. I have learned a ton already, and am glad that our community can have constructive, open conversations like this. I just want to say that I am doing my best to keep up with replies; however, I am in very poor health and it is very hard to maintain the pace that this conversation has. Please know that I will read everything as quickly as I can, but I encourage all of you to continue sharing and offering input actively, as it is truly a great thing for us to come together and talk about the game we love and dedicate much of our time and energy to. Thank you all.[/i]
I don't really know why I am posting this, but after three games today with a k/d of below 0.30, I have lost all shame and dignity.
A lot of people think that SBMM (skill-based matchmaking) only hurts the most talented players, as it pits them against other very skilled players, making every match a chore and ultra "sweaty."
BUT...
I am a lower-skilled PvP player, and I have come to realize that SBMM is really hurting my Destiny experience as well. The thing is, my best friends are all quite skilled in the Crucible, so, it hit me today in a bout of loneliness that I was avoiding my friends, because:
If I play with a group of my friends, their great stats are a major matchmaking factor used when finding opponents for us to play against. That said, playing with my very best friends ultimately means a few things:
I will get destroyed. (And) We are likely to lose when I go 2 and 15 and single-handedly cost my team of friends the game.
So, as a result, i have been avoiding doing my favorite thing--playing Destiny PvP--with my very closest friends, which SUCKS.
This is hopefully a little food for thought for those in support of SBMM to unsuccessfully make playing crucible as a lesser-skilled player more enjoyable (i.e. easier).
Sorry for the lengthiness.
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Play more passively, be behind your team. No need to be in the action if you can't handle it. Depends on what you are playing as though. Generally get a scout and pick at targets supporting the players in the thick of it. Killing is fine but be aware people do catch on. So have a shotgun or something for when they do. Let them come to you. Not saying you'll win, but that should help.
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For things like that I personally don't care about it. I'd rather just enjoy playing with my group. The only time I really care about doing well and winning is in the few are in the few game types that I still new grimore wins in.
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4 RepliesNerf fusion rifles
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1 ReplyYou're not hurting your team when you play with higher skilled players. Because there is some SBMM component to the game, they are seeing less skilled opponents, so they do better - which makes up it. Don't worry about it. My guess is they like playing with you on their team because of the above.
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Edited by hatch_87: 8/31/2016 2:47:10 PMfor you and anyone who falls under this situation... im sorry... but having SBMM made it so that me as a slightly above average player (strong emphasis on the "slightly") had to sweat my balls off every single god damn match... and when SBMM had a stronger influence I actually avoided the crucible with my friends because of how stressful it was to me to sweat like that... so unfortunately.. my pain is your enjoyment and your pain is my enjoyment... I do not like SBMM because it made my game experience terrible.. and as much as I feel for you.. quite frankly.. my gaming experience is more important to me then whatever your going through.
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Now I see this. Iv played with some people who had a idk like .03 I think and that was the only time that the game had noticeable diffrences in match making.
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Play better scrubs to become the unltinate scrub.
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Let me say this...I am a player very similar to you. I have my good matches and my bad, and then horrible. I have learned to adjust my play style when running with friends, who are all far better than me. I stay on there hip and play support. I get a lot of assists and some kills. I may only get 5-10 kills but I also avoid death a lot more. When playing with skilled players adjust your style and be more conservative. This will help you and your team.
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That sucks. I've had clan mates stop playing with other clan mates for this reason.
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11 RepliesI was really bad at PvP. Blue weapons, getting blink shotgunned and sniped every life. I had a .4 kd Slowly, I got better to the point I had a 1.4 You get better playing people with good connections that are all over the spectrum (mostly better) than by playing similar players with lag. The only thing stopping you from improving is yourself with cbmm, as lag is much much less frequent. CBMM also makes playing with friends much more fun.
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I feel you buddy. I am not the best at PvP, but i'm not exactly trash either. When I queue alone, I can be in the top 3 and maintain a positive K/D. But once I queue up with anyone from my clan, I am below a 0.5 K/D. I wish I had an answer, but sadly, I am doomed.
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[quote]however, I am in very poor health[/quote] You're in my prayers[spoiler]No offense meant if you don't believe as I do[/spoiler].. I hope you recover from your illness quickly and fully, but in the mean time remember to stay positive and expect a good outcome no matter what it is you're going through.. and enjoy every moment you spend doing whatever it is you love to do.. especially when you have friends/family involved.. [spoiler]my mother has stage 4 cancer.. it's hard to find people that don't get upset when you have to leave an activity(raids) to take care something that's far more important.. but I've been blessed to have friends that "get it" and don't make a fuss when it happens..[/spoiler] God bless and good luck in all your endeavors!!..
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I feel bad for my friends that just started. When. They play without me they do really well. When they play with me they are lu,KY to get a kill. I agree, it doesn't support multi-skilled teams
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Edited by Nineball2112: 8/31/2016 2:29:18 PMYou're 100% correct, but that's why I like SBMM. I have the same issue when playing with my friends who are quite a bit better than me.. I have actually told them that I can't play with them because they are KILLING me with the matches I get in. We still talk on the Party Chat while we game, but I have to do the PVP stuff on my own normally. And you can DEFINITELY tell a difference when in a fireteam of really good players and when you're going it alone. Sure, I want to get better, but I do NOT want to be crushed every single game. I will be at the bottom of the board consistently when I game with my friends who are much better, but when I go it alone, I'm normally near the top of the leader board.
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14 RepliesEdited by Stari: 8/31/2016 8:03:45 AMIt's not SBMM!!! SBMM is only Bungie's excuse for bad P2P choice they have made. It's an excuse for lag and latency. When you are playing in a full party, the chance for you to be on the good side of this lag is much bigger. Not because you are suddenly that good, but because in the full party the chance is bigger that your team will get the host. Last Iron banner i was playing alone: my average k/d 0.9 In a full party my average k/d was 3 So it doesn't depend on players skills, but on the combination of internet connections. Sometimes 1 player leaves and the other player joins instead and suddenly you can't get kills any more. I also don't want to play pvp with some friends any more.....just because i can't get a kill, when playing with them. They are good players, but our connections don't go together. [b]Destiny's PvP mostly depends on internet connections en who is the host. After that your skills.[/b]
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2 RepliesPlay the Classic playlist when you play with your buddies, it tends to give easier lobbies.
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I'm bad at PVP too, but have gotten better over time. I have similar experiences as you, but I personally think I benefit from SBMM because I'm playing with people whose skill level is similar to mine. I have matches where I do very well & some where my k/d is negative, so I feel like it's been pretty even for me. I also will not play with my friends who are awesome at PVP, but it's because they hog all the kills! They'll get 23 or more per match while I wallow in the minus. When I play solo I do SO much better. If I was getting destroyed every single match-it wouldn't be fun & I would never play PVP. I'm not saying SBMM is great, but I'm the minority that doesn't mind it. Yes, coming from the guy with a k/d under 1.0 - I'm well aware.
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My buddy solo hits 20+ kills a game with 1.5+ kdr. When he plays with me he struggles to keep a .5 kdr. I usually do a little bit better when I play with him. I feel bad though. I just want to see him enjoy the game but he doesn't when he plays with me. Also SBMM tends to think I am a lot better than I am when I play solo so I rarely do.
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8 RepliesIts a double edged sword, this. On the one hand is your argument. You get shat on when playing with your friends and it feels bad. On the other hand is the opposite argument. Suppose SBMM was removed or was now in favour of you, the lower skilled player. Well what happens when you play with your high skilled friends, you shit on people all the time. Now with the mercy rule in place you will most likely be applying that rule in every game. That gets boring. It isnt fun for high skilled players to play in low skill lobbies all the time. Sure its great to play with friends dont get me wrong. But having no challenge to your Crucible matches isnt fun. Well, Private Matches are coming, hopefully that settles that debate
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10 RepliesI am a mediocre Player but my exp is always this: I get in a Lobby and destroy everyone for 3-4 rounds. After that the Lobby is filled up with absolute tryhards drowning in their own 6 Players party sweat and I get Rekt, just to see a lobby full of noobs again and the circle continues. Its annoying and it isnt fun.
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Just wanted to say I understand wher you are coming from with this post. I have a clan member who that when he plays solo he can go positive most games but every single time he plays with the rest of us he struggles to get a .5 he has games with 2-3 kills. Luckily in regular crucible we don't really care about winning but it's just crazy to see this happen day and day out. I am just happy he deals with it because I wouldn't be able to and I would rather play with ALL my friends, regardless of skill level.
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Thank you, OP. You are describing why my clan doesn't PvP together anymore. We all have diffeeent skill and some of the lesser skilled dudes just don't like playing with the better ones for these EXACT reasons. Well, that and the lag. SBMM is what really made TTK worse than Y1. We survived the PoE breaking up our raid team. We did not survive SBMM and raid mechanics that exposed lesser skilled players. In the end, TTK did more to hurt the community than help it. It really only helped solo players in a social game. Bad design choice. You reading this Derrick Carrol?
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The one thing I don't understand is that if it is truly SBMM then why are there still so many blowouts? I don't play much but when I do I still seem to be either on the giving or receiving end of an ass whooping, a lot. Sure there are close games too but if the teams are truly made up of evenly skilled players it seems like the total ass whoopings would number a lot less.
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I agree that sbmm sucks, but if it will be removed completely then you'll be put against skilled players. And also, playing against players that are better than you helps you get better. I like playing against a team better than me.
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There will forever and always be issues with PvP and Destiny. We have been harping on about it ever since year one and there has been little to no changes. It is frustrating as hell that when I'm playing a decent game with close ending rounds or relativity normal k/d (1.5 is good for me) they break the teams up. I would be enjoying the game and having this thing called "FUN" and it gets ruined. Same goes for Trials. 3 cards in a row we would be going against teams that are on their 8th win for flawless and we are matched against them on our 3rd/4th win. Our average elo is 1200 and we are pitted against 1600+ elo barely into our card. Not to mention the appalling lag that is going on. Red bar gods and Green bar fakes. I captured a perfect video of a player glitching all over the map today and yet had a perfect green connection pitted with my green connection. I could not even touch this player but yet he was constantly damaging me and got a 4.5k/d at the end of the match. I can't get enough of destiny's PVP. With all the issues I still enjoy it even though sometimes I want to throw my controller with enough for it will disappear from existence. There is a simple solution that I hope that will bring it back inline. Make the priority CBMM. And dedicated servers but that's wishful thinking. Lets hope that private matches will prove the improvement CBMM will make the game more enjoyable.
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1 ReplyEdited by BLWigglyAkA: 8/31/2016 1:10:22 PMI'm for sbmm..... and I believe they should place this in trials too. Let every one play on their level
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