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8/19/2016 4:23:08 PM
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The lore behind TLW, TFC, and Thorn, as well as Jaren Ward, Shin Malphur, and Dredgen Yor pt 1
[i]Dia Dhuit everyone!
Today I would like to discuss the lore in the title of this post. This is somewhat a continuation of the "Origin of Golden Gun" post, where I would like to sum up what I think the story is, it being fairly complex. There are many different stories about Dredgen Yor, so I decided to make multiple posts about this topic.
The story of TLW is easier to tell (mainly because it has more grimoire, lol) than the story of TFC. However, their stories tie together along with the story behind the three Hunters that I will also cover. I think these stories tie because Jaren Ward owned TLW, and then Shin did after Jaren. But let's get into a nice "book" form of the story.[/i]
Theory 1:
Jaren Ward and Dredgen Yor are brothers. When they were born they were designated a gun made specifically for them. Tex Mechanica made these guns for them, with it being the only foundry at the time to make guns. Jaren was given TLW, Dredgen was given TFC. Dredgen, by the way, did not have the name that he is given in the lore. He took the name later in the story.
Dredgen and Jaren both were fantastic fighters. The problem was that Dredgen Yor had a dark desire for power in his heart. He was kept in the hive moon for several years after a failed Raid attempt, and mastered the Hive Sword Logic, and became a corrupted Guardian. He formed the Thorn, either out of his First Curse or completely from scratch at the time of his corruption in the moon. I like to argue that TFC was "lost to fire" in that it was corrupted with Dredgen, allowing Jaren to still have TLW while still being consistent with his "gun corruption" story. Thus the Thorn was made from the original FC
He ruled the Crucible after leaving the moon, with this new gun by his side. He killed Pahanin, Thalor, and Jaren. He then told Jaren's Ghost to go to Shin Malphur, a disciple of Jaren, and give him TLW.
Shin Malphur was given TLW, and meets Dredgen. Shin Malphur, with the power of his light, anger, and power, engulfs his cannon in flames and fires three shots. At the final shot he says "Yours, not mine" and takes Dredgen's life instead of Dredgen taking his.
[i]This was the story I like to hold by. I will make a second post incorporating the Black Garden grimoire, and how it can go into the story.[/i]
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1 ReplyYeah, umm... What even is the story behind The First Curse? The Grimoire of it basically just says "There are 2 Last Words pretty much" Who owned TFC? How does it relate to TLW? Etc
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11 RepliesThorn was made out of the rose hand cannon and jaren ward gave TLW to malphur directly.
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36 Repliesthats a whole lot of bs you wrote there
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Thorn was a corrupted version of the Rose, dregden yor's weapon
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1 ReplyIt's almost like people read some of the grimoire, and then ignore the rest of it that would prove these theories incorrect.
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Bump 4 La8er
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3 RepliesDoing trials carries come stop by stream https://www.twitch.tv/crotasendraidd
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1 ReplyAnother theory (one that gets hate) is that yor was a warlock. Yes ik about the cloak, could have easily been taken as a trophy, same with his rose. Anyways the theory goes more or less the same only when jaren fires instead of firing in the air he kills yor, Yor self rez and shoots him. Either theory is that yor had 1 of 2 motives. 1 was to corrupt shin by killing his mentor and taunting him to hunt him. Second is despite his corruption yor wanted to be stopped , so he crafted his demise by finding someone with a strong light and unwavering will to finish him off. Both those theories would describe why yor both tainted and wondered if he'd given up during the dialogue before shins golden gun.
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2 RepliesAll those guns can kiss my @$$ because when its high noon everyone is dead.
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Dia dhuit mo chara! Conas atá tú?
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Dia is mhuire dhuit
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Kinda hate to pop the fan fiction bubble up there but without much evidence that's what this basically is. First we have no idea if TFC is the rose. All the grimore says is that the TFC was lost to history. It is entirely possible that it could have been turned into the thorn or nicknamed the rose but we have no reference of the first curse in the grimore so at this point it is equally possible that the original TFC is lying rusted in the bottom of a swamp. We simply can't say that since TFC could be anyone's it was definitely the rose. Second dregen Yor and Jaren Ward are probably not hunters. The only evidence you site is that they are both good hunters and might be best friends according to bungie. That evidence is just weak at best. There are a ton of good hunters out there and wouldn't dregen Yor at least say something to wards ghost about killing his brother? This isn't the true definitive story. It is at best wild speculation and at worst a boring fanfic.
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Sorry dear that isn't true. The first curse isn't connected to the thorn. And Dredgen didn't desire power, he had fear that corrupted him
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2 RepliesIf only this was relevant to destiny in the slightest.
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dredgen yor also killed pahanin but that doesnt make them brothers
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2 RepliesThorn was always in Yor's possession. He referred to it as his rose before his corruption. Yor saw the "thorns" on Thorn as petals like that of a rose. After his corruption, all he saw was thorns.
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With the power of his light, anger- AND POWER. Got a little slip up near the end, Guardian. But nice theory!
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3 RepliesI heard another story before I'll tell if anyone wants to know
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4 RepliesI thought Yor corrupted his Rose into Thorn. I don't think the first curse is involved in this story at all since in its grim card it says that it's always forgotten compared to TLW. If TFC was actually Rose/Thorn it wouldn't be forgotten at all.
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Not a good theory but to each their own
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7 RepliesI thought Yor was a warlock. On all the thorn cards there's a picture of a warlock, and on all the TLW cards there's a hunter.
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4 RepliesTwo shots Not 3.
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1 ReplyEdited by BusyBadger: 8/20/2016 2:31:25 AMI always try and post this up in Thorn & Last Word discussions. Partially, because it just doesn't seem to be known by a lot of people and I'm always trying to help it get more exposure, but [i]mainly[/i] because it's [b]just so damned good! [/b] Great interpretation and voice acting of the lore we've been provided by the grimoire we've received. The Thorn 2 grimoire piece from the interaction in the bar is particularly well done, though none are bad in the slightest. Enjoy!
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Just to clarify: I am arguing that the "Rose" HC is a nickname for the gun before the Thorn, and that TFC is the "Rose" in that it was the pure gun that was corrupted into Thorn.
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2 RepliesDia is muire duit!
