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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 8/17/2016 7:18:24 PM
25

Alternative ways to approach weapon balance in a game that shouldn't necessarily be balanced

So we have had [i]A LOT[/i] of discussions since Destiny launched on what we feel this game can or should be and a large number of those discussions have been on the topic of balance and how it applies/is applied to this game. Since launch there has been a trend that has developed of Bungie periodically doing tuning passes (read: nerfs) to various weapons and abilities. We all know the history from Vex and Suros, the great AR debacle, Sunsingers, etc, up to present day where Striker Titans sit trembling waiting for the inevitable. I have proposed to Bungie before that I don't believe this game should be perfectly balanced and that when they made the decision to allow us to take our own weapons and armor into the Crucible, that should have intrinsically come with the knowledge that it would be possible to be outgunned and there would be some onus on us the players to have to either try to find our own better gear or to compensate through strategy, map knowledge and an overall knowledge of how to maximize our classes and abilities. Why Bungie didn't believe in that unique system they created, I don't know, but I do know the level of frustration that has resulted from each passing balance patch and I believe that there could still be better ways of approaching weapon performance in this game. One focus for a lot of us as we look to how weapons perform vs each other has been effective range. It's something that Bungie have made adjustments to in some cases, but I believe it is something that is still not well enough defined and I think a large part of that problem is in perks that effectively let weapons of particular classes out-perform the intended class range. We've seen this so often since launch and with so many weapons of various classes that the lines become blurred of what should be realistically used from where and at that point I think it becomes effectively impossible to truly balance anything. But another problem is that there seems to be no rhyme or reason to things like magazine size, impact and stability. These are factors that should weigh much more into the quality of a particular weapon or classes performance as opposed to everything being about an equal TTK. Magazine size for example makes no sense in Destiny. Scout rifles at launch had typical magazines between 20-25 rounds. Since HoW, that number has dropped to where I've typically had 10-13 rounds in the Scouts I use. Meanwhile Hand Cannons have seen theirs balloon and there are any number that can match or better various Scouts. This is a problem. Hand Cannons should be heavy hitters that are effective at close range, but they should be slow firing, slow reloading and limited in range. Scouts on the other hand should take more shots to kill, but they should have a distinct range advantage as well as larger magazines to compensate for the additonal shots to kill and for suppression. Then there is the waste that are high impact/low RoF ARs. Again why would anyone ever use one of these when you can kill as fast or faster with a bullet hose and you get twice the magazine size? There are so many calls for this subclass to have a damage buff or for bullet hoses to be nerfed, but if Bungie were to just raise the magazine size on them it would completely change how this class can perform and suddenly what they lack in TTK, they make up for in the ability to lay sustained fire. Again with both Hand Cannons and ARs, there should be a distinct lack of range compared to Pulse Rifles and Scouts, but their advantage should be in how heavy they hit with HCs and the ability of ARs to lay that sustained attack. In any case I believe that whatever the solutions are to balancing this game and keeping it fun at the same time, Destiny needs to be looked at differently than typical shooters and I think it's wrong to try to pigeon hole it into standard FPS tropes. Destiny is anything but typical and each weapon and class has the ability to be unique and amazing and hopefully they get there one way or the other.

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  • The two things you mention that I [u]really[/u] think need at least a really hard look if not a major overhaul are the high impact weapons and the ammo counts. 1) Ammo counts: Especially on AR's and sniper rifles... Scouts are mostly fine, they generally have significantly higher mag sizes than hand cannons but a little tweak is probably OK. But a lot of the mid-high impact AR's have really low mag sizes. Mags should be smaller as you go up in impact, sure, but not quite so dramatically. And there's even variability in the classes with no logical explanation. Example: I have a really great roll on both a Haakon's Hatchet and a Paleocontact. There are some minor differences in the perks but the stats come out about the same, and most of the base stats are pretty similar to begin with. But inexplicably the Paleocontact has a 40% larger magazine. Why? Same with sniper rifles. Why do the lower impact variants have basically the same size magazine? On the extremes, Weylorans has a mag of 5, and the Spindle 3, but otherwise every single one has 4 . Weylorans should have at least 6 in the mag. The Antinomy/Defiance class arguably should have 5, and Glass promontory definitely should. 2) High impact variants of all guns are weak. They need a decent amount of work, but the easiest solution is to make it so that impact actually means something, and those weapons have noticeably increased flinch. Maybe not HCR-level, but the tiny amount of extra flinch they currently have pales in comparison to what you get from a doctrine because it's just pumping out so many rounds. It should be the opposite.

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