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Edited by Lost Sols:
8/17/2016 7:18:24 PM
25
Alternative ways to approach weapon balance in a game that shouldn't necessarily be balanced
So we have had [i]A LOT[/i] of discussions since Destiny launched on what we feel this game can or should be and a large number of those discussions have been on the topic of balance and how it applies/is applied to this game.
Since launch there has been a trend that has developed of Bungie periodically doing tuning passes (read: nerfs) to various weapons and abilities. We all know the history from Vex and Suros, the great AR debacle, Sunsingers, etc, up to present day where Striker Titans sit trembling waiting for the inevitable.
I have proposed to Bungie before that I don't believe this game should be perfectly balanced and that when they made the decision to allow us to take our own weapons and armor into the Crucible, that should have intrinsically come with the knowledge that it would be possible to be outgunned and there would be some onus on us the players to have to either try to find our own better gear or to compensate through strategy, map knowledge and an overall knowledge of how to maximize our classes and abilities.
Why Bungie didn't believe in that unique system they created, I don't know, but I do know the level of frustration that has resulted from each passing balance patch and I believe that there could still be better ways of approaching weapon performance in this game.
One focus for a lot of us as we look to how weapons perform vs each other has been effective range. It's something that Bungie have made adjustments to in some cases, but I believe it is something that is still not well enough defined and I think a large part of that problem is in perks that effectively let weapons of particular classes out-perform the intended class range.
We've seen this so often since launch and with so many weapons of various classes that the lines become blurred of what should be realistically used from where and at that point I think it becomes effectively impossible to truly balance anything.
But another problem is that there seems to be no rhyme or reason to things like magazine size, impact and stability. These are factors that should weigh much more into the quality of a particular weapon or classes performance as opposed to everything being about an equal TTK.
Magazine size for example makes no sense in Destiny. Scout rifles at launch had typical magazines between 20-25 rounds. Since HoW, that number has dropped to where I've typically had 10-13 rounds in the Scouts I use. Meanwhile Hand Cannons have seen theirs balloon and there are any number that can match or better various Scouts.
This is a problem.
Hand Cannons should be heavy hitters that are effective at close range, but they should be slow firing, slow reloading and limited in range. Scouts on the other hand should take more shots to kill, but they should have a distinct range advantage as well as larger magazines to compensate for the additonal shots to kill and for suppression.
Then there is the waste that are high impact/low RoF ARs. Again why would anyone ever use one of these when you can kill as fast or faster with a bullet hose and you get twice the magazine size?
There are so many calls for this subclass to have a damage buff or for bullet hoses to be nerfed, but if Bungie were to just raise the magazine size on them it would completely change how this class can perform and suddenly what they lack in TTK, they make up for in the ability to lay sustained fire.
Again with both Hand Cannons and ARs, there should be a distinct lack of range compared to Pulse Rifles and Scouts, but their advantage should be in how heavy they hit with HCs and the ability of ARs to lay that sustained attack.
In any case I believe that whatever the solutions are to balancing this game and keeping it fun at the same time, Destiny needs to be looked at differently than typical shooters and I think it's wrong to try to pigeon hole it into standard FPS tropes.
Destiny is anything but typical and each weapon and class has the ability to be unique and amazing and hopefully they get there one way or the other.
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12 RepliesSols, I agree with almost everything you are saying, except this: [quote] Then there is the waste that are high impact/low RoF ARs. Again why would anyone ever use one of these when you can kill as fast or faster with a bullet hose and you get twice the magazine size? [/quote] I found a Shadow Price lying around in my vault with some amazing perks. Crowd Control, Life Support, and Perfect balance. Even though its a high Impact/low RoF AR, I've been using this weapon in the Iron Banner this week and in smaller maps, I have been getting a LOT of kills with this particular weapon. It's quite an amazing gun. The way I see it, high impact, low RoF AR/PR's are probably not as good as their higher RoF brethren without having higher quality rolls on the perks. Since the other weapons can make up for lack of damage/precision with bigger mag sizes and volume of fire, they are more forgiving than the higher impact models. But if you can consistently land headshots with these weapons, they can be surprisingly good. Other than that, agree with you 100%. I see a sad trend with Destiny. They keep whittling down what makes every weapon, character, and their abilities unique in favor of migration towards a more generic skill set, stat set (armor, recovery, and agility), and perkless PVP combat. I think this is the wrong direction for the game to go in because class/subclass differences, weapon differences, hell, even perk differences should be celebrated in this game. I had a debate with a guy in another thread a few days ago regarding rerolling. He advocated for the removal of certain perks as they were too powerful and allowed guns to do things they were not intended to do. Perks like rangefinder, hidden hand, etc. I pointed out to him that several strong perks were already removed or nerfed (shot package, field scout, send it, etc.) and that if you continue to remove the strongest perks left in the game, you have a migration towards generic, perkless weapons. Destiny was never meant to be Halo/CoD where your characters, abilities, guns, etc. were all generic. Nobody had different perks on their guns, everyone had the same abilities to choose from. It was a game where you won or lost on player skill alone. I think that is what bothers people about crucible. If you have a REALLY good gun, it can help bridge the gap between yourself and higher skilled players. I'm not sure I always buy into that argument, but it certainly makes it easier to compete. Rather than migrate towards generic PVP combat, IMO, Bungie needs to be creating further division between the characters and celebrating those differences. Titans are supposed to be the most heavily armored. So let them take more damage than any other character, at the cost of their speed and agility. Hunters have the lightest armor in the game. So let them take the least amount of damage, but have the ability to escape/avoid damage through speed/agility. Warlocks have the best recovery. So allow that to really stand out for them. When balancing skills, Bungie should consider a punch-counterpunch mentality. For instance, a hunter's sticky tripmine or throwing knives were the PERFECT counter to shoulder charge. If a titan is bearing down on you in a straight line, turn him into a unicorn with your grenade or stick him in the face with a knife - and follow up with a few hipfired shots as needed. Remove the effectiveness of those skills and what do you have? People complaining about shoulder charge needing a nerf. I don't agree that SC needs a nerf, I just believe some of the skills that can be used to counter it should be rebuffed. In a game like Destiny, trying to equalize everyone's average KD just doesn't make sense. Some people are going to be really good and have higher KD's on their favored classes no matter what you do with the skills, while others will never be good at PVP with certain classes, and the nerfing of prevalent skills is not going to give them significant help towards improving their KD's on disfavored classes. What I find is that people naturally gravitate towards the three different classes, and they generally develop an affinity for playing one certain subclass. For me, I still love my gunslinger, even after all of the nerfs the 6/14 patch brought. If people enjoy a particular subclass, that should be celebrated, just as it should be celebrated if people enjoy specific weapons. If certain subclasses/weapons are underused, just buff them to make them more appealing. Don't punish people for using what they like.
