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Edited by Fal Chavam:
7/26/2016 3:20:31 PM
49
How the vex "time travel".
So today let's talk about the vex.
Time travel huh? How do they do it?
And better yet, how do they do it without any paradoxes?[quote]for the vex, there is no paradox. ~Preadyth[/quote]
We know the vex are able to reach beyond the veil and beyond the veil may be a a sort of void that is separate of time.
We can tell this from the FWC device as the device was a golden age experiment to try and mimic the vex portal system. When inside the device people were able to see timelines, but there was no way of telling which one was ours except for obvious deviations.
The device, however, can drive people mad. Human minds are too weak for the device and so the FWC, as of the end of RECORD 343-CHASM-789, were going to try using a machine.
So with that knowledge in mind let's look back at the vex. Their portal system can reach beyond the veil. A place that, can safely be assumed, is separate of time.
Now for a twist. I don't think the vex time travel.
Now if you remember from the book of sorrows, Crota (while helping his sisters with an experiment) cut open a "new wound," into a "new space". From this wound the vex came out.
Now consider this. What if Crota accidentally cut into a pocket beyond the veil? One that just so happened to contain a bunch of vex.
So what I bet the vex do in order to retain information about the future and change the past without causing a paradox is, hide in a pocket beyond the veil.
When the vex get to a point in a timeline where critical failure is imminent. They pack up all the knowledge they had in relation to major events that happened up to then and give results on tests that failed or succeeded and ship it out with a collection of precursors.
The precursors then retreat safely to a pocket beyond the veil and wait for Crota in the next timeline to screw up the experiment and open a hole into the next timeline.
However with each timeline there's bound to be a few differences so they have to scan to see what's different and they simulate things to make absolutely sure everything goes according to plan.
[spoiler]for an example.
In one timeline, they managed to survive until the taken king arrives, then critical failure was achieved when a majority of vault of glass assets were taken.
They made note of that for the next timeline and captured a guardian to lure the light into the vault to kill off the taken. That guardian was Preadyth.[/spoiler]
Rinse and repeat until they eventually weave themselves into reality and have an emperor of all outcomes.
Now I hear someone crying out. [b]BUT THE VAULT! THAT'S A PLACE WHERE THE PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE CAN INTERACT![/b].
That it is, that it is. However the places those portals lead to are isolated just like the vault itself. They can interact without a paradox because of this isolation.
So where I have no doubt we're time traveling in the vault, it doesn't affect anything because we're just moving to another isolated space.
So to sum this up. Think of the movie "edge of tomorrow". That's basically what the vex are doing. Live, test, record, hide, repeat.
They don't time travel, they hop timelines. No paradoxes, no time loops, and just a little more victory each hop.
Thank you for your time.[quote]Back to master thread:
[url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/205238605/0/0[/url] [/quote]
Cheers
:D
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Yes! This!! Praedyth speaks of "[i]the pattern[/i]". This clearly implies their scanning and making sure everything is how it's supposed to be to avoid paradoxes. Atheaon calculates and processes the information of the external/current timeline. Oracles then make sure said calculations come to pass and Gorgon's rectify any unknown or incorrect alterations. I know Atheon deviated and renounced whatever the Vex believed in. But put that aside for a moment. This tells me that the [i]Vault of Glass[/i] on Venus is not a Vex fort, but a [i]command center[/i]. To be more specific, they are trying to establish a permanent, separate pocket(s) of space and time in order to have more than one to retreat to. Escaping all the way across what I assume is the cosmos itself cannot be easy. [i]But![/i] If their troops can retreat to their nearest available station, then it does two things: 1) Helps them scout more far to reach places. 2) internal gates can open to more timelines to do more scouting [spoiler]Example: VoG1: can open gates to two timelines. Now the Vex make a new VoG that can also open two gates to two timelines. That'a now [i]four[/i] timelines![/spoiler]. We didn't cripple the Vex, we only slowed them down.
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1 ReplyThis theory does a great deal to explain an issue I had with the mission to capture Skolas. If he pulled all those House of Wolves troops from their respective timelines (presumably mostly from the past), then a lot of Fallen were killed by our hands before they could fight in the battles they were supposed to. This would in turn lead to a cascading series of events being altered due to a large amount of Fallen troops being absent when needed. The war they waged on the Reef in past may not have been a real issue for the Awoken in the wake of these changes to time. This way, however, since he was using Vex tech that he barely understood, he could have been pulling the House of Wolves from other timelines rather than from his own 'local' past, thus horribly maiming some other worlds' natural orders of events, but leaving our own unaltered.
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There has to be a "real" physics point of view on this. If you were to travel [X] amount of time in any given location then you would have to travel [X] amount of distance to realign with where you travelled from, but traveling that [distance] may cost you that [time] taking into account the earth, solar system and galaxy are moving at an incredible speed which is subject to change depending on the rotation of any of the systems. Now let's say the Vex have figured this all out and can travel faster than light in this dimension or another, paradoxes still spring up everywhere, but we are told the Vex have worked around that too. The only way they could travel without paradoxes is if it wasn't physical and not in this dimension. The way they would see timelines would be in some mathematical form which they would have to translate constantly from every possible timeline forwards and backwards, even if they could do that, how would they physically travel to any given point in spacetime?
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1 ReplyIkora refers to time as a river, and implies the vex actively change and block it. It's funny though when people try to comprehend it.
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3 RepliesI think this makes the most sense out of [b][i]EVERYTHING[/i][/b] with time travel. Well done! Well done Guardian! I think now we have an actual idea on how to stop them: Destroy these pockets. Oryx did. Several times. This could very well be why the VoG was overrun with Taken. They plagued the time pocket
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Strider did time shenanigans better.
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1 ReplyWhat if, what if the vex don't time travel but time line hop ?
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Edited by BloodyAlien243: 7/29/2016 12:44:37 AMWell it's heavily hinted that the vex come from a completely different dimension from our own. One of the tho retinal ways to time travel would be to jump to a random point in another dimension and jump back to the original at a different point. Like leaping over a stream then walking up the stream then jumping back to the other bank or getting off a treadmill and going to the back of said treadmill. This could be what they use the pocket dimensions for.
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Edited by Nikola Vexla: 7/28/2016 3:18:53 AMIt's simple, timey whimey stuff, as a vex I can confirm this
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I thought this was already accepted as a possibly method. Why else would they have Atheon, Time's Conflux?
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1 ReplyIt's not true time travel, it's just bungie server lag
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2 RepliesThe machine they use the device on could be the stranger
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I don't know much about lore, but this is a plausible theory. ~Always interesting
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2 RepliesCompletely off the wall and not supported by current lore at all, but a "would be interesting if" type idea: The Golden Age scientists experiment with immortality, create robots made from organic stock under the premise that it could accept organic memories, end up creating original Virtual Extension (VEx) robot prototypes from Radiolorians. These become proven as not viable for human mind hosts, so the scientists go different directions and eventually make Exos, initially using militaristic models based on historical precedent and utility. The Vex robots are converted into computing devices to advance technology instead and networked together into "world-minds." This becomes the advanced model for computing and different types are used for various ends. In the meantime, other scientists make a device to "lift the veil", realize human minds can't comprehend it other than scattered impressions of impending doom. This leads to learning the nature of the darkness, leading humanity to advance their minds for impending war (warminds). In their desire to understand and divert the disaster, they send the vex prototypes into the veil as explorers to find a way to ensure human survival. There they remain with their directive to find a way for humanity to survive any potential outcome. over time, humanity forgot they existed. They learn how to cut through the veil from Crota, learn about the Traveler and Sword Logic from Oryx and develop the confluxes, vault and proginy in an attempt to gain strength to overcome the Hive which is the main perceived threat. However they copy the hive in order to defeat them by worshiping the darkness, becoming a threat to humanity themselves, which is where we find ourselves today.
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Pierce the Veil, Cerpin Taxt.
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Vex are 2spooky
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1 ReplyVexgasm
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3 RepliesMaybe vex travel is based off of hive travel, but the only way to travel time is going inside the vault, using the vault they control to travel across time then leave it, ending up in a different time. Since all timelines of vex converge in the vault, they could know exactly what happens when they change something, before they even decide to do it.
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1 ReplyVery solid theory, congrats!
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1 ReplySo this is basically what happens in Edge of Tomorrow
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I always appreciate these types of posts +1
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This, is why I will never stop playing Destiny.
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4 RepliesCan someone explain why they havent annihilated the last city and all of the guardians yet? Theyre basically dimension hopping gods
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2 RepliesEdited by xKCz: 7/27/2016 10:12:42 AMSo if time travel is a thing in the destiny universe, what's to stop guys like oryx/atheon/crota coming back? Apparently Skolas pulled the whole house of wolves through time, couldn't he he bring his past self with him? It would be a good contingency plan, should he get captured/eliminated.
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3 Replies"A pocket beyond the veil". What sort of claptrap is this? For the Vex there is no paradox because they are rooted in Time like we are rooted in Space. They share a single mind across time and that is why there are no paradoxes for them. Paradoxes are Space based problems. Because the Vex base dimension is time itself they don't have linear time. No past and no future, there is only a single unified moment. With no experience of linear time, there can be no paradoxes.
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1 ReplyI love it when people try to "explain" time travel. It always comes off so convoluted and ignores too many vital pieces. This is why, in retrospect, i'm not so disappointed in the Stranger's reply of "no time to explain". They almost did us a favor by not having her explain Destiny's version of time travel, as it's bound to either be silly (like this idea which still doesn't excuse paradoxes) OR it's bound to be convoluted (like any compelling time travel story). Time traveling is NOT the most interesting thing about Destiny's lore, for all the right reasons. If it turns out to be too pivitol in the story arc, this weakly built universe will crumble into a steamy, steamy pile.
