That was so long that you should have just directed people to the Grimoire.

[quote]Hello and welcome Guardians, this is your friendly neighborhood AnonPig and it's come my attention that some of you may not fully understand just how the Hive work, Oryx and his Throne in particular, so I hope to answer a few of those questions and bring to light a possibility. First off let's establish the simplest rule there is for dealing with ascendant Hive. If you don't kill them in their Throne World, they aren't dead. Now it's very important to note that they must be killed in THEIR Throne otherwise it's not going to keep them away for long. Our first encounter with a Hive such as this was Crota, who after the Battle of Mare Inbrium was called back to his Throne by Oryx to plan for the final attack on the Traveler. Eriana-3 and her fireteam went to finish off Crota once and for all, but only Eris returned to tell the tale. It became our duty to kill him, but to do so we first must weaken him. We were sent after his highest points of Tribute, his Eyes Hand Fist Heart Might and Will, all killed by us. This weakened him to the point that when we finally made our way into his Throne through the keyhole in the Stills that we could defeat him. And so we did, killed with his own Sword he died by our hands, a final death. One that he would never return from. I'm a state of rage, either because of some paternal instinct or simply because we killed a point of tribute, Oryx came to seek revenge on us. But before this point there was another time where an Ascendant Hive was killed in a Throne, and it's this instance that commonly gets thrown around as a counter to my pervious statement, but it's not. [b]Verse 3:8 King of Shapes[/b][quote]This is the Coronation of Oryx, the Taken King. It happened thus. In the cold abyss of the sword world, King Aurash walked under a cloak of green fire. He walked through the sky and the sky shuddered and froze beneath his feet. He walked until he found Akka, the Worm of Secrets, who was denying a truth until it became a lie. “Akka my God, Worm of Secrets. I am Auryx, sole king of the Hive. I have come to receive a secret. I want the secret power of the Deep, which you hold.” “I give no secrets,” said Akka, whose voice was code. “No,” said Auryx, “you give nothing. Giving is for the Sky. You worship the Deep, which asks that we take what we need.” Akka said nothing, because if it denied this truth, the truth might become false. “But you gave us your larvae, the worm,” said Auryx, “and that is why the worm devours us now: because it was given, not taken. So I must take what I need from you, although you are my god.” Said Akka, “You have not the strength.” But this was a lie. Auryx had killed Savathûn his sibling and Xivu Arath his sibling, and he had the sword logic of killing them. Auryx the First Navigator set upon his god with his sword and his words, and cut Akka to pieces, and took from those pieces the secret of calling upon the Deep. He wrote this secret on a set of tablets, which he called the Tablets of Ruin. And he wore them about his waist. Then Auryx said, “Now I may speak to the Deep, the beautiful final shape. I will be King of Shapes. I will learn all the secrets of our destiny.” His speech to the Deep is not recorded here. But it is known that he returned, and he said, now I am Oryx, the Taken King. And I have the power to take life and make it my own. Then he went out into the universe, and fought the Ecumene with his Tablets. And the Worm his God was pleased.[/quote] Now, not only does the above card have a typo,but it also shows Auryx kill his sisters Xivu Arath and Savathûn, but later in Verse 3:9 Carved in Ruin both are brought back. It is solely because when they were killed they were killed in Auryx’s Throne that they can come back. People will claim that they were brought back because Oryx made war and trickery, but that is how they were summoned from their Thrones. Which is proven here. [b]Verse 4:5 This Love is War[/b][quote]Xivu upon Oryx — Uttered by Xivu Arath — Sibling of Oryx — BETRAYAL. We have marooned Oryx within the Deep. This is our obligation as lords of the Hive, to make war upon each other, to eradicate weakness and make ourselves sharp. OBLIGATIONS. Once, I permitted Oryx to kill me so that he could gain the sword logic and overcome Akka our God. This left me trapped deep in my throne. But Oryx my brother made war upon the Ecumene and in that war he described me, for I too am war. Thus I was resurrected.[/quote] It's here we see Xivu’s fate from being killed by Auryx, she was sent to her Throne, and it's here we see how one is brought from their Throne. You may remember in The Dark Below how Crota was attempted to be brought back, that crystal we destroyed was his return, he was brought back in the same manner of his aunts, they were war and trickery, he was the Eater of Hope. So what does this mean of Oryx? We certainly defeated him in his Throne, but does that truly mean he's dead? His death was a curious one, so let's first assume yes we killed him with no sneaky bullshit. Yes, Oryx is dead forever and that's that. But… From a stream we learn that in Regicide Oryx Took himself, but it may be that he actually Took his Worm. This is confirmed possible by a Ghost Scan. We demolished his line of tribute, his Court, Crota, the Warpriest, and Golgoroth, all dead by our hands, all those lines to feed his Worm gone dry for a time. His Worm now starved would naturally begin to eat Oryx, but if it was Taken... it might not be allowed to. Bent to the will of Oryx his Worm starves, and what do we do? The last tributes of corrupted Light are weaponized and detonated at the open cavity of Oryx's chest. It could be Oryx used us to destroy his Worm. It could be that Auryx, severed from his connection to the Deep, will return. I personally believe Oryx is completely dead, but this is one of those open ended strings that can go either way, that's how Bungie likes to write it. They read our theories, they read what we want to happen, and they like to keep us on our toes. This is your friendly neighborhood AnonPig and i want to know, what do you think will happen with Oryx? [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Post/769615/115658936/0/0]AnonPig's Theories Archived[/url][/quote] I can only hear Myelin Games reading this 😂

All I know is it's gonna be a while till we know. RoI is a major dlc and it'll be probably another year before we see another dlc and/or destiny 2. So just sit tight.

Lol first thing I thought :/.....0-0 OMG ITS ANON PIG

Anon pig i was just about to make a thread how when we killed Oryx in the raid we really just killed his worm so thanks for saving me 15 minutes

It seems the Book contradicts itself somewhat, in Verse 3:6 "Star by Star by Star" after Oryx beheads Xivu and Savathûn it's said "These were true deaths, for they happened in the sword world", then later in Verse 4:5, as you quoted, it says they were merely in their Thrones, so it's pretty unclear what "true deaths" was supposed to mean. I'm pretty sure Oryx is *dead* dead but I'd bet Ir Halak and Ir Anuk are not. 1st of all they weren't in their Thrones and secondly, Ir Yût isn't dead so it's a fair assumption that the OG deathsingers would also survive a similar situation.

Hey Anon, big fan thanks for your work! Help me out here; what do you think was the time period of the collapse? As in was it a slow decline over years or one big bang?

I think Oryx is dead. The only way I think Oryx can come back is if either the Darkness wills it (which I don't think it will) or the Vex time travel to an earlier point and alter history.

Personally, I believe that Oryx is completely dead. It could be possible that we will have to face his siblings in the future. But I have a question. Are all the worm gods dead?

I guess we don't know the full extent of the power he stole from Akka, but I'm not sure destroying his worm would benefit Oryx a whole lot. The presence of the worms appears more or less to be intrinsically tied to the Hive being able to use the sword logic to become more powerful and without them theoretically they aren't much of a threat to anyone. It seems more likely to me that if Oryx did anything with his worm at the time, it was placing it into the Touch of Malice, so his body isn't turning into a chrysalis (as some have theorized) or in hibernation or the like, he's dead and the worm lives on in the weapon. I suppose you could make some space-magicky thing where his worm could then bring him back somehow, but I tend to think not.

Next time on Dragon Ball Z!! [spoiler]but this is interesting to think about [/spoiler]

I never thought about it how we were used to destiny his work very interesting theory

Heh. Oryx better not come back otherwise he's gonna be like "The hell? They've already replaced me with some crack ass fallen?!"

Cheers Love! The Ashen cavalrys here!

So what if he comes back? Without his worm, he wouldn't have power over the reality-warping energies of Akka. He'd be even less of a threat than he was in regicide, and he'd have an expiration date of ten Hive-Years. (Hive years are weird because we have no idea how long it takes the fundament to orbit its star.) Personally, I think we're done with Oryx, but not his worm. I'd love to see it become stronger than Oryx and then get wiped out by the latest raid boss to emphasize the threat.

Holy smokes. This is a great story ending. Love this