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6/30/2016 3:53:24 PM
112
Crazy theory on Frontstab/backstab issue.
Hello all!
As a Bladedancer main, even after the update to fix frontstab, I still get yellow number frontstabs and white number backstabs. The patch notes states that the angles were fixed, but Just thinking on the pooper today, I had an idea that may be presenting some issue.
Now, I'm not a programmer, so I may just be crazy, and feel free to tell me if this is implausable, but how about this:
The problem is not related to hit detection angles at all.
Blink strike is actually NOT a "extended reach" melee, but actually a short teleport into melee range, then a normal range melee to follow up. (Thereby allowing you to melee from "extended range" but not actually making the melee longer. Contrast to Warlock Thunderstrike, and ACTUALLY longer range melee)
Now what do I think this might mean? It means we may actually be backstabbing from the front and frontstabbing from the back if this brief teleport were to overlap our hitboxes.
This would be much easier to explain with pictures than words, but here goes. If I were to teleport into your hitbox as you face me head on, and my blink strike carries me past the centerpoint of your hitbox, then executes a melee, then the contact point of my melee may actually be on the rear angle of your hitbox.
Conversely, the same could happen if that midpoint is passed from behind, meaning that a stab starting from the rear would pass through the person, hitting from a front angle.
Is this possibly the problem that we're dealing with? Would a change to blink strike's programming to prevent it from ignoring collisions solve the frontstab/failed backstab issue?
Thanks!
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I always liked backstabbing the guy who shoulder charge me. It made sense to me because during the shoulder charge he leans forward and you can get your knife into his back. I feel like this happens in allot of cases where you actually can hit done area of the back from the front area. Probably just bs though lol
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Make even more sense when people kill me with blink strike when i lunge at them with a sword or even blade dancer at full health.
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4 RepliesI understood that fully and yes, that very well could be the problem.
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12 RepliesEdited by ghoul: 7/1/2016 5:48:21 PMMaybe they should try setting it to "wumbo".
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Dont know how people havnt noticed this yet but if your both meleeing and you have backstab on it will always activated and get you the kill thats all it is when ypu get front stab all they have to do is fix this and revert the dumb changes they did to blink strike
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6 RepliesEdited by Synergy-Seven: 7/1/2016 5:41:06 AMI've been noticing this a lot, I've actually made it a habit since the nerf to attack from the front and not expect any wonders from attacking from behind. This actually makes sense how you've explained. I thought they just -blam!-ed up the cone angle and reversed it by accident on the nerf. This is a really constructive theory and wouldn't mind seeing some input from Bungie's end.
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6 RepliesIt's a good theory and all but it wasn't broken in year 1. So fixing it is only a matter of undoing every nerf that happened in year 2. That would make a lot of people happy too.
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6 RepliesI think this proves that bungie employees don't poop...
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Nah, we just trickstab. We grab our knives, put our arm round them and stab em in them in the back.
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Edited by Creatioux: 7/2/2016 1:24:07 AMBackstab actually registers player sides as well as their back. So if you run at someone diagonally and Melee their shoulder, it registers as a side/backstab hit. Edit: Also, I can't really imagine a blink strike would overlap hit boxes.
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1 Reply[spoiler]Made You Look[/spoiler]
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Don't forget if the enemy is walker away/towards you (spies in tf2 also have face stabs sometimes and the logic is almost the same)
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The best lag in pve of all time.... they improve
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Well we definitely blink as it makes the same screen flash but it's kind of stupid
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1 ReplyLike most things in life, issues should only be discussed after a solid half hour of reflection on the can Good life choices, my boy
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You're over thinking, the teleport is just an effect, it's really just extended range with an animation.
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Pooper theories make the world go round my friend! It's an interesting theory but have you factored in any movement from your opponents end? It's possible if they're moving forward or backwards(why?) then hit box collisions are not working properly. It also depends on when bungies servers do the hit box checks - whether the strike after the blink teleport is done on the opponents position AT the time you teleported or his NEW position when you come out of teleport. Traditional game theory dictates the positions used should be ones when the attack was initiated...
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I've always assumed it was doing this because of poor coding+ not staying up to date constantly. Like on your screen I could be facing you but to the game it still thinks you're not. Which would result in me still hitting you in the back regardless of what you see. Dark souls series has this issue as well. The game can't keep up with itself while 2 players are fighting each other. Most of the time one person sees what the server sees but the other person doesn't. Which is why you could roll away from a hit and still take damage anyway. Since the game still sees you within range. But there are occasions where both players see the same thing but the game doesn't. I've had times where my hit looks like it doesn't connect and that was the same for my friend that I was attacking. But the game sees my friend still within range and registers the hit. So i've assumed this is what's happening with the front stab issue.
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2 RepliesEdited by WakoWack: 7/1/2016 4:25:05 PMI think it is mostly a question of effects. Blink jump acts as a fainted manoeuver dazzling your opponent (on his/her screen). If your coming from the back, there would be no true reason to use blink melee, except for gaining a little range, to your advantage. As for myself, I prefer trying to tick 'em off so they turn around and battle... Although the attack (to prevent frustration) should garanty landing damages as soon as you have targeted and pressed "RB", the hitbox then serves as reference for the level of success of the melee hit. Meaning that if I sent melee to a gardian facing me, I am sure to deal him at least little damage in situations where he runs out of hitbox AND (my favourite) overkill if I calculated correctly space notions... I would expect the player to know what distance is required to perform, in optimal range, the so-called blink. Concerning backstabbing, I would tell you not to forget another human is actually controlling your target. It is totally fair for them to get the chance to avoid the attack, either by running/sprinting or turning around to hit you in a rush. Lets compare to elements: When your enemy has void shield and you strike it with arc element, you don't mind dealing fewer damages. So, because of the angle of the melee attack, the player should consider having failed his pursuit by rushing into backstabbing, without allowing the opponent to engage in an adequate fight. Therefore, blink strike needs some sort of target lock. An interesting alternative could imply an extended hitbox which contains more presice scale of potential damages. Yours truly, I hope my ideas, one day, will come in handy.
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2 RepliesI'm on the pooper writing this. It's a good theory and I as well have zero knowledge of programming. Like everyone else on this forum I assume every fix should take 5 seconds and their job is way too easy to be messing up this much. ;)
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Sounds legit.
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3 Repliesa wise man said once: Unlagged uses a technique called “backward reconciliation” for hitscan weapons' hit tests. For the duration of a hit test, it moves players to where you saw them when you fired. (It knows because it sent you the player origins in the first place, it saves that information up in a history queue, and your fire command contains a timestamp.) After the hit test, it moves them back. Moving player entities around like that is perfectly fine, as long as the entities' states are restored exactly, [u]and as long as no code runs which requires players in their correct state [/u]while the [u][b]server[/b][/u] is in a backward-reconciled state. Unlagged is very[u] careful [/u]about such things, so it doesn't present any problems.
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1 ReplyFront hand/Back hand ?
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Edited by TheFatKiwi: 7/1/2016 3:49:26 PMI feel like they broke it more. Seems to activate on front stabs more then backstabs. Best way I've gotten it to work is to try to jump and stab them in the top of the head, gives you a pretty consistent kill. If you really think about it though they kinda -blam!-ed themselves with that perk. With latency and lag that all game always have, it seems like it would be an almost impossible perk to get right, especially with people blinking and twisting around everywhere.
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11 RepliesMaybe people are just wearing their gear backwards
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So then if this is true the obvious fix would be to instead of looking for where the melee detection box is, have it check where the center of the BladeDancer's hitbox is Instead of Melee>Check Melee Position>Within angles so Backstab it would be Melee>Check Player Positions>Within angles so backstab
