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Edited by Atlas:
9/12/2016 6:22:35 PM
304
Snipers need a nerf and I will happily debate anyone who disagrees
Sniper have gotten to a point where they are literal perfect weapons for any bad player or good one, to put it simply sniping in destiny takes no skill.
Point one: Snipers are extremely easy to handle. (STOP! Actually read this out before you run to comment.) What I mean is switch time. It makes no sense for something so long and stalky to be put away so quickly. However it does make sense for side arms, tiny pistol when primary runs out or fusion rifles, because once you shot the round you can't instantly shoot again. Honestly, you could defend shotguns switch time as well, but I'm not touching that can of worms because people's bottoms really hurt when those words leave your lips. Anyway, Pick up any sniper in this game and you can pull it out like any CQC weapons which is a huge problem somebody should not be able to whip out their sniper body shot then finish off with the primary it should take a few seconds to put away such long and big weapons not snap on our backs in a millisecond.
Point two: Snipers shouldn't be two shots in destiny. Sniper are extremely powerful weapons which makes sense heavy damage in exchange for no CQC ability with it and massive damage for landing precision shots. However this isn't the case because snipers have plenty of CQC ability due to snipers being able to kill in two body shots and it's switch time being fast (excluding perks cause as much as I don't think fast switching is valid, exchanging a perk for faster switching is completely fair.) Pair that to the fact that almost any sniper in this game LITERALLY almost any sniper can two shot a guardian. Now you may think "he's going down lanes he deserver it, or he could of dodge, get good". But that's easier said then done when an average player who isn't adept to CQC combat or is trying to get in range for a kill, or the player who knows exactly what their doing get shot in the body and is quickly melted by said sniper or his teammate. Now if snipers were three shot or lost damage based on distance closer meaning less (which is a debatable solution due to map size. The goal isn't to ruin snipers but balance them.) But how current snipers are any person can take a sniper and use it to win fights or matches they wouldn't win if snipers weren't OP. This is turning out favorite game types into who is the better sniper/dodger and the only part of the sniper meta that takes skill are dodging the bullets that come from a gun that practically guides them and the guardians who close that gap. (Trials of Osiris). Speaking of trials why on earth can people res snipe? Not to open that can of worms too much, but I'll leave at this how much skill does it take to a shoot at something that literally can't move unless someone else pushes it.
Point three: Sniper in destiny have such high aim assist, the game practically aims for the person. (I need clarify what I mean by this so thank you to the pro sniper debaters who brought it up) Basically AA makes the reticle of a sniper stick the player who is being aimed at and it leave quite a large window then other games and some time it registers hit which clearly are missing and if you add hidden hand you can see shot whizzing pass a person head and some how it actually hits and that is baloney. Now before you say server side issues, A) doesn't exclude the fact that it happens. B) Bungie has no Intention of getting better servers. Plus no recoil for being shot at unless you have high caliber rounds or a high impact weapon which is ridiculous you have conform your primary to beat a special. plus no wobble/sway while aim down sights. Now pretty much any sniper in any other game will penalize you in some way when you get shot. It makes sense, in exchange for the power you wield in your hand you get punished for bad sniping by unscoping or flinching. But in destiny you simply ignores it all and says "Oh I got shot? Well I can still pump two bullets into you or shoot you once in the body and finish you off with my Primary lol" that shouldn't be the case. Instead how about snipers have wobble and you zoom out once shot. Similar to other fast pace game like Halo or CoD. (Note: People didn't like those examples. Sorry but it's true.)
Keep in mind these are PVP only changes! Not PVE ones!
Edit 1: (remove due to valid points)
Edit 2: Keep it up guys I want to have this discussion.
Edit 3: agree or disagree I'm happy for how civil everyone has been thank you. Also I would appreciate it if everyone continue to bump this I want to have larger discussion about this getting more of the community involved.
Edit 4: wow guys so many replies so many discussions at this rate with this many replies and hopefully even more bumps we can get a community manager to notice!
Edit 5: Hey everyone I hope your well I've been playing destiny since day one and I love it. But I believe change needs to happen but if your able to prove me wrong I'll change what I'm saying but that means legit debates not name calling.
Edit 6: Huge update read above.
Edit 7: Hey debaters I hope all of you are well. Now through out this post I've learned many thing about sniping that have made me rethink some of what I said. However, I've Also seen quite a lot of information confirming my beliefs. So I will continue to support this post. Please be civil and respectful and keep bumping this post so the debate continues. Thank you so much! Also 843+ POST? HOLY SHIT!
Edit 8: 1,000 replies and still no replies from bungie? Well hopefully at 2,000. Also anyone who does read this I hope you have a great day!
Edit 9: WE DID IT!
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I highly disagree that snipers take no skill... I do agree they need a nerf...it's hard for a primary to compete...I think we should increase flinch when taking shots by 50 percent that might help
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12 RepliesNerf this nerf that, no one wants buffs anyone. How about we buff blink again and see what happens to snipers. I guranteed shotguns will come back as the superior special. Every nerf has a consequence. Something else will reign in its place and you will want to nerf that as well. Never ends.
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16 RepliesI don't snipe and I don't think they need nerfed. If you can't stay out of sniping lanes that's on you not the weapons. I think it should be a requirement to drink a glass of antifreeze prior to posting a nerf request.
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14 RepliesWhy do they need a nerf now when they were fine pre ttk? Since ttk released they've received a ninja flinch increase, the short scopes made less effective, final round was nerfed, luck in the chamber was nerfed. The only buff they've received is a range buff with has nothing to do with your gripes with the weapon. What makes snipers a problem now? Is it because the other specials and primaries are worse off? If that's the case then nerfing, which is what brought us here in the first place, isn't the answer. They need to buff everything else and speed the game back up. Its really that simple. At this point in the game, the only way to counter act the sniper meta is by giving snipers less time to react, and punishing them for missing. The correct way to do that is to rebuff shotguns, rebuff fusions, and rebuff the primaries. If you do that, the only way the average sniper will sit on you is if you're unaware they're there. If I see a sniper at medium range or close range who isn't already scoped on me, I should win that gun fight 99% of the time. There should not be enough time for sniper to set up and take more than a single shot once you're aware of them. They should be dead if they miss. Period. When fusions could kill at medium range reliably, when you didn't have to be touching someone to kill them with a shotgun, when shotpackage was in the game, when hawkmoon, TLW, and Thorn could two shot, when Suros was hitting in the 40s for a headshot, when medium RoF pulses could two burst, when low RoF auto rifles hit in the 30s, the only place snipers were used exclusively was on maps with long sightlines, and the vehicle maps, which is where they were supposed to be used. And that was when final round and rerolling was a thing, when snipers were at their strongest, yet nobody complained. When trials first came out, the only time I ever encountered teams with snipers was when the snipers were either really good players, or they were running final round. The average sniper did not rely on theirselves enough to hit that shot every time in a must win situation. Most people ran shotguns, which is why they were complained about. You keep crying for nerfs when nerfing created the problem in the first place. In this entire game's history, the mythoclast and auto rifle range were the only things that needed major nerfs. And they went too far. Why you want them to continue nerfing when all it has done is create problems is beyond me. Snipers are not the problem, the other weapons just suck. But whatever. Keep crying.
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7 RepliesPoint 1. Well given transmat tech in universe I should be able to convert my auto into a sniper with the press of a button, screwing any stow time at all. I shouldn't have to reload, should be able to transmat ammo directly into the chamber, now that I'm on the subject. Point 3. We could have descoping on damage (not a fan because that would jack up PvE, and bungie repeatedly states they are too lazy to split the two), we could have increased wobble (either jacking up PvE or simply making Unfliching a have to have like Counterbalance is right now for some guns) Or we could have what I like to call Damage Drop On, it's like the asinine BS damage drop off on hand cannons that makes zero sense aside from pandering to the idiots who see them as sidearms for cqc only only in reverse, meaning snipers do significantly reduced (possibly zero) damage to enemies *under* a certain range. Would also probably screw with PvE but would "keep snipers in their place" as super long distance weapons only, like the drop off "keeps hand cannons in their place". And it makes exactly the same amount of sense.
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2 RepliesSome snipers take 3 shots to kill, it still takes practice in this game it's not for everybody, someone who hasn't used snipers much is going to get very often by someone using a scout rifle or someone who can get close to them, quickscoping and close-mid range sniping still takes a lot of time to be good at And there is a fair amount of wobble/recoil from being shot particularly from high rof guns, if someone can pull off a headshot while being shot they are either very good with their sniper or got really really luckky, even if someone is really good there is still some luck involved because really the only thing you can do is try to recenter it on your opponent Snipers don't pull bullets because of aim assist, all aim assist does is make the reticle stick very slightly on your opponent when you bring the reticle over them, it dosent increase hit boxes or pull your bullet
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8 RepliesEdited by V: 7/1/2016 12:24:22 AMSnipers do not need a nerf. Many of your points are quite wrong, and invalid. 1. You claim that AA "aims for the person". This is 100% incorrect. On a sniper, AA only increases the amount of time your reticle, which is the circle in the middle of your scope, stays on a targets head when you drag your scope across it. AA doesn't aim, it merely slows down one's reticle when it is on a targets head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WIVLXxfPFMv 2. You claim that all snipers 2 shot. This is, once again, incorrect. A sniper with a 43/10 RoF to Impact ratio is unable to 2 shot body shot. 3. You claim that snipers have "no recoil for being shot". This is, once again, 100% incorrect. The flinch factor on snipers has increased since Year 1, and it is harder to hit shots when under fire than ever. 4. You claim that snipers are "extremely easy to handle". This is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Snipers take a lot of practice and an EXTREME amount of skill to use effectively. No one can pick up a sniper for the first time, and hit all shots without missing. In a game like Destiny, where the maps are, for the majority, small and all engagements are close quarters. With the increase to scope zoom, snipers are incredibly difficult to use. 5. You claim that snipers "turn our favorite game modes into who is the better sniper/dodger". Snipers are not even the dominant weapon type. In Rumble, 6's, and 3's, shotguns are used way more than snipers are. Shotguns are still extremely prominent in the Crucible, and if you look at many of the top tier streamers, such as the LAB, Wish You Luck, Lumi, and countless others, they use shotguns. Not snipers, shotguns. Snipers do not need a nerf in any capacity. Snipers are currently the hardest to use since they've ever been, and if you keep getting destroyed by a sniper, they deserve to beat you. They are the better player and have invested more time to learn a weapon that actually takes skill to use, and deserve to perform well. Finally, you should not be complaining about a weapon class when you: 1. Have only 32 kills in that weapon class. 2. Aren't a top tier player who has mastered all the specials and can unbiasedly talk about each one.
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Nah snipers don't need a nerf it's one of the only special weapons that [i]doesnt[/i] one shot to the body. (Sidearms are just fast firing hand cannons)
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My problem is that the body shot damage is too high for a "precision rifle" and that some people get easy kills in hand cannon range.
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Everything else may need a buff more than snipers need a nerf.
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2 RepliesOnly if the nerf only affects pvp. If not, then they shouldn't be nerfed.
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1 Reply
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1 ReplyEh. I think snipers are fine. I would argue it takes a little skill to kill someone [i]who sees the sniper.[/i] That obnoxiously bright lense flare pretty much makes it clear to anyone being targeted that they should find cover. To your point, it is a little too easy to go from sniper to primary, even without perks. Didn't get a headshot? No problem. Just whip out that hand cannon or pulse rifle and smoke your target faster than you could fire a second sniper shot. I'm saying this as someone who does this also. Anyone can check my KD. Snipers are a bit of a crutch, and that's exactly how I use them.
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The only thing that I think would need to be changed about snipers is the flinch. Even I know it's way to easy to get a kill while being head shotted at a constant rate. So just the flinch needs to be upped a little, that's all.
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7 RepliesI agree to disagree. Ha I win logic 2016. Beat that.
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4 RepliesI agree with you comes I'm tired of being one shoted by a pussy sniper my helmet is apparently made out of paper mache an my shield is made out of air snipers need a nerf enough said there is no debate about there is no argueing about they need a nerf cause on pussy players use them
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1 Replysniping is not a problem, though I would have nothing against nerfing body shots, reward a skilled hand, and not the scrubs that body shot then switch to primary
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1 ReplyEdited by vote4pedro28: 6/30/2016 10:32:04 PMI think you may be on to something with the readying time of pulling the weapon out or switching to another weapon after. There needs to be a larger risk/reward for that class of weapon . Another thing, a sniper is meant for long range encounters. People shouldn't be able to constantly hold down hallways at close range with one. Likewise, I shouldn't be able to pick off a sniper at ridiculous range with a pulse rifle, cough, hawksaw or GoM, but both happen. I've adjusted a lot of my gameplay to avoid getting sniped, but, it doesn't make it less annoying. Also, using a secondary weapon all game shouldn't be a thing. It's called a secondary weapon for a reason. This goes for shotguns and snipers. I can't tell you how many times I enter a trials match, see 3 snipers, and immediately know it's going to be a lame ass 5 to 9 rounds of slow gameplay. Maybe add in bullet drop or some other new mechanic. I play BF4 all the time and sniping actually takes skill in that game because of that mechanic. Maybe another option is to have a revers damage buff. For example, shooting an enemy point blank with a sniper shot does 50% less damage. It's literally the only gun good at all ranges right now. Secondary weapons should feel clunky, not be so fluid to use. Changing from special to primary should be quicker than primary to special. Maybe also make all snipers bolt action. At long range, that's not a big deal, but at short range, it will eliminate it as an option except for the true elite.
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19 RepliesGod this post is retarded
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9 Repliesall guns in destiny have insane aim assist, even shotguns. you hand a sniper to a bad player and guess what, they are still a bad player. it doesn't magically get you kills. they are not overpowered like thorn was. I think other specials should be buffed, not have snipers nerfed. People should stop taking to the forums and complaining about what they want nerfed/changed. Also, with no account linked hiding your characters/stats why should anyone debate with you?
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16 RepliesFor anyone curious, this guy's top weapon is...... a shotgun! with 6500 kills. Here's his top five, and you will see why he wants snipers nerfed. http://destinytracker.com/destiny/medals/xbox/xxGRKxx%20BOSS 1. Shotgun 6540 2. Super 3648 3. Melee 3390 4. Pulse rifle 1963 5. Machine gun 1380 You can clearly see why he wants a sniper rifle nerf.
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20 RepliesEdited by Raging_Shockwave: 6/30/2016 9:35:20 PMSniping in Destiny is too easy. If anything should happen to snipers it should be increasing the flinch on them when being shot. Too many times have I got the first shot on someone with my primary and got domed because in Destiny the flinch mechanics in Destiny are negated partly due to aim assist. For those of you that are gonna come at me and say “BS your just bad, get gud, that's impossible; they got a lucky shot, or it doesn't happen....." Majority of my stats are in the top 10%-1% (My main character is my titan) so I'm a decent player and I HAVE VIDEO EVIDENCE OF THE NONSENSE THAT I AM TALKING ABOUT https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptk9wpeqCEs This poor fella got shot in the head by a sniper while said sniper was hit first by his primary.
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3 RepliesI disagree. When have nerfs ever helped destiny....Think about all our past amazing weapons that got nerfed due to cry baby complaints. You're no different! You're trying to change snipers , Snipers havent really been touched since day one. Leave them alone and leave other guns too. NERFS ARE NEVER THE ANSWER. All u do is make something good less good.
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1 ReplyHave to agree. It seems some people can spend entire matches using a sniper (or shotgun) as their primary and it makes actual primaries kind of obsolete. I think it's been amplified with banner being clash. No objectives often mean you get the same old types who camp in corners with snipers. Makes the game tedious.
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16 Repliesfun ....I like being able to quick scope, drag scope, body then primary, it makes it fun and interesting plays can happen.... it goes both ways, sometimes on the bad end sometimes the good....
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1 ReplyShut up
