Do you have proof that the vex have access to a fractal 11 dimensional reality like slip space?

No, but that fact is really only a descriptor of slipspace and the behaviors itself. We know that there's also shun-space, trick-geodics(?), and the glow. Those were presumebly unaffected by Halo as well. The distinguishing part about slipspace that makes it immune to Halo is that it is separate from space-time, NOT its 11 dimensional properties. We know this to be true because Shield 0006, which existed in a slipspace bubble (so slipspace's deadly and unpredictable properties did not dictate reality inside the bubble) was protected from Halo's effects. Theoretically, any reality disconnected from ours would be immune to Halo.

The thing that made shield worlds immune to the Halo effect was that they hid deep enough in the Slipspace fractal dimensions that the Halo effects energy would dissipate. If simply hiding in slipspace would've made you impervious to it then virtually all flood would've survived the firings.

I don't believe there's a source to support that claim. If you could find one though, that'd be cool. Slipspace also isn't fractal.

Halsey raked her fingers through her hair, all impatience. “Well, it looks like we’ve got another slipspace bubble within this one. It’s almost as if it’s made up of concentric bubbles. Like a Russian doll.” Slipspace bubbles within Slipspace bubbles, i.e. fractal dimensions.

I read both of your posts. No need to find further quotes. Slipspace isn't fractal on itself. It is only artificially fractal in very specific instances because of how the Forerunners manipulated it to suit their needs. IE, they shaped it into bubbles, or used it to create repeating patterns of infinite depth as your quotes indicate. Even then though, the artificially fractal nature of some of the Forerunners' slipspace technology is not explicitly stated to be why Halo's pulse can't enter slipspace. As I mentioned earlier, it's ambiguous to what effect - if at all - Halo has on raw slipspace.

Also what does it matter if they are artificial? It shows that Dyson's spheres used them.

Right, but Shield 0006 was only one layer deep, with further layers containing other rooms and facilities within. One layer deep was enough to protect Shield 0006 from Halo's pulse. So you can't come to a reliable or logical conclusion that protection from Halo's pulse is based on fractal depth. And as I previously mentioned, it's never explicitly stated anywhere in the lore that a slipspace bubble is why Shield 0006 (or any other installations using a similar method) were protected from Halo. It may well be that Halo's pulse can't penetrate slipspace in a meaningful way in general.

It is, I will try to find the quotes. But my point on how easy it would've been for the flood to avoid the Halo effect were that true still is a issue.

I still stand by my claim. In fact, the IsoDidact revealed that Forerunners didn't fully understand how Halo would effect slipspace - if at all, so they resorted to performing calculations to determine when to fire Halo at a point where the pulse would hit virtually all Flood and Precursor forces out of slipspace. Assuming some did survive Halo's pulse in slipspace, they would still be dead. The Flood would exist in a galaxy without substantial life, and would die off, while the Precursor star roads would be rendered inactive, as they only activated in the presence of Flood in the final years of the war. I also have to apologize. I want to support my claims with quotes, but it isn't really feasible to store my library of Halo lore in my dorm room.

If you need sources I can link to you to various halo threads. The Forerunners had no way to know where the flood were at any given moment as the Burns were blocking their slipspace abilities which include their sensors. The flood were able to survive on the halo ring in Halo 1 for 100 thousand years with no bio matter.

[quote]The Forerunners had no way to know where the flood were at any given moment as the Burns were blocking their slipspace abilities which include their sensors.[/quote]Burns are just themas that had succumbed to the Flood. They don't produce any obstructing signals or energies. Mathematics is a surprisingly powerful tool. You'd be surprised with what you can calculate - and accurately too - despite having limited resources. That is true for both real life and Halo. One such example in Halo is the Carver findings, which were able to accurately model the dynamics of human civilization in the late 25th century and predict the coming insurrection. Another is that anyone with a clear view of the stars and radio equipment, as well as a basic understanding of math could locate human colonies (this one was mentioned in the adjunct of the Fall of Reach I believe). So for the Forerunners, who had MUCH more advanced technology, processing power, AI, and mathematics, it's not out of the realm of possibility they'd be able to accurately model the probability of the Flood accessing slipspace. Further than that, the IsoDidact literally says the Forerunners did this at the end of Silentium when they're beginning to make preparations to fire Halo. So even if you don't agree with its believability, it's canon. [quote]The flood were able to survive on the halo ring in Halo 1 for 100 thousand years with no bio matter.[/quote]That is because they were being purposely kept alive for research purposes.

But if even a single flood infected ship survived it would have all been for not, especially seeing as the receded the galaxy right after. I will have to look into the burns. You are right in regards to the food in halo 1 but I believe they escaped containment and survived for hundred thousand years but I'll have to look for the quote. Also with Forerunner technology they simply could've slowed down time so that mere minutes to them could've been centuries to the people outside (as my early let quote shows they could manipulate time within the fractal dimensions) and just take over the Galaxy then.

[quote]But if even a single flood infected ship survived it would have all been for not, especially seeing as the receded the galaxy right after.[/quote] Not necessarily. While Halo's pulse certainly does kill Flood, it has always been described as being meant to starve them to death. [i]"The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE[/i] Also, according to Silentium's epilogue, Rebirth, the Forerunners waited several years before reseeding the galaxy to ensure that their plan had actually worked. [quote]I will have to look into the burns.[/quote]Should be page 77 of Silentium. [quote]Also with Forerunner technology they simply could've slowed down time so that mere minutes to them could've been centuries to the people outside (as my early let quote shows they could manipulate time within the fractal dimensions) and just take over the Galaxy then.[/quote]While hypothetically true, in practice it's a bit different. For one, we don't know how easy it is for Forerunners to alter the flow of time in slipspace bubbles. Secondly, do not forget that nearly all Forerunner tech is based off of access keys, and specific markers to ensure that only the intended individuals (or more accurately, individuals with clearance) can access certain things. For something like a Halo shelter, that would be very well hidden and locked down. For how powerful the Flood are, the Forerunners still kept secrets from them. IE: The Flood only learned of the Lesser Ark at the very very end of the war. So late in the war, that the Flood's battle to access it was cut short by Halo's pulse.

Something else I want to mention is that I'm pretty sure that flood can't starve once they get a host seeing as between Halo 2 and Halo 3 they literally transformed high charity from this. https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/encyclopedia/locations/high-charity/high-charity-thumbnail-708x398-bbdb0d86bcb947fbbb3da17850cbea2f.jpg To this http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080529200237/halo/images/2/2c/Flood_Charity.png And even inside it looked like this https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTLFE-RsWtdgyLZlZLK3xVEdCHLchaj75J5B1G0p5VJq3qhHfhvw This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain. “The object rises fifty kilometers above the planet’s datum and measures four hundred kilometers across the base, at its greatest diameter. It intersects many Forerunner constructs and appears to have arisen at the center of a major city, which city is, if memory serves— if this is truly Uthera—” Bear, Greg (2013-03-19). Halo: Silentium (Forerunner) (p. 82). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. (Note I know it doesn't reference it as a Flood construct but you can check page 82 of Silentium to see) This shows that the Flood have they ability to create biomass. Also of note is that the Flood were quarantined to 12 systems for 290 years by the Forerunners, whenever they escaped to another system the Forerunners would detonate the systems sun. If the Flood could still starve, they would have at this point.

[quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain.[/quote]That's a logical fallacy. You're assuming that the Flood can only convert biomass not grow their own. Note that for a life form like us, or any of the Covenant, we require dense energy reserves because our survival is based around movement and displacing objects that often are way heavier than our own bodies. Something like the FSC walls and structures you're pointing out don't require movement. They're stationary, and would require significantly less energy than something designed to move. [quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain. “The object rises fifty kilometers above the planet’s datum and measures four hundred kilometers across the base, at its greatest diameter. It intersects many Forerunner constructs and appears to have arisen at the center of a major city, which city is, if memory serves— if this is truly Uthera—”[/quote]Again though, it arose at an incredibly dense and populated city. More than that, the only purpose of a spore mountain is to propel FSC spores into the atmosphere. That's considerably simpler than needing energy to supply energy to complex organs like a brain, liver, or kindeys. [quote]Also of note is that the Flood were quarantined to 12 systems for 290 years by the Forerunners, whenever they escaped to another system the Forerunners would detonate the systems sun. If the Flood could still starve, they would have at this point.[/quote]The question is though. Is a system referring to a solar system? Or a system of stars? How big were these systems? How heavily populated? Did the Flood conquer those systems immediately, or did they make constant gains throughout those ~300 years? I understand where you're coming from, but a lot of the claims you're making are based off of incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings. Not to mention, you're contradicting explicitly stated canon. [i] "[b]The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do[/b]: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE "The Flood cover more of our galaxy with each passing day. They feast on the essence of life itself. [b]The only way to stop their advance is to remove that life upon which they feast.[/b]" -Faber, Terminal 5, Halo 4[/i]

[quote][quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain.[/quote]That's a logical fallacy. You're assuming that the Flood can only convert biomass not grow their own. Note that for a life form like us, or any of the Covenant, we require dense energy reserves because our survival is based around movement and displacing objects that often are way heavier than our own bodies. Something like the FSC walls and structures you're pointing out don't require movement. They're stationary, and would require significantly less energy than something designed to move. My point is if they had a limited supply of energy they wouldn't have wasted it by placing some much biomass that served no purpose. [quote]This would require more biomass then was actually in high charity, and as far as we know they never had a chance to get more. So this shows that the Flood can create more bio mass. Another showing was when they created a spore mountain. “The object rises fifty kilometers above the planet’s datum and measures four hundred kilometers across the base, at its greatest diameter. It intersects many Forerunner constructs and appears to have arisen at the center of a major city, which city is, if memory serves— if this is truly Uthera—”[/quote]Again though, it arose at an incredibly dense and populated city. More than that, the only purpose of a spore mountain is to propel FSC spores into the atmosphere. That's considerably simpler than needing energy to supply energy to complex organs like a brain, liver, or kindeys. The energy requirement would be enormous, we humans put about 40,000,000,000 tons of pollution into the atmosphere for year. Or about 110 million tons per day. In order for the flood to convert the the planetary ecosystem to a flood state within the mere hours/days it usually takes, they would have to pump vastly more flood spores into the atmosphere than this. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/08/20/atmospheric_co2_humans_put_40_billion_tons_into_the_air_annually.html [quote]Also of note is that the Flood were quarantined to 12 systems for 290 years by the Forerunners, whenever they escaped to another system the Forerunners would detonate the systems sun. If the Flood could still starve, they would have at this point.[/quote]The question is though. Is a system referring to a solar system? Or a system of stars? How big were these systems? How heavily populated? Did the Flood conquer those systems immediately, or did they make constant gains throughout those ~300 years? Halo Encyclopedia; pg. 169 It soon became clear to the Forerunners that ordinary naval tactics would prove fruitless in stemming the mounting infection. They decided their only hope of defeating the parasitic swarm would be to create even more lethal weaponry. At first, robotic drones were sent to battle and contain the Flood onslaught using surgical, localized tactics. Soon after, the Forerunner Fleet Command considered “premature stellar collapses,” by which a supernova would be triggered by a naval battle group, engulfing a planetary system and preventing any possible risk of Flood infection. Halo 3; Terminal 2 It is my opinion that any system where there is evidence that the enemy has established a physical presence is lost and must be razed. This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse; I advise that this be established as standard operating procedure for all compromised systems forthwith. We cannot fight this war by half measures if we intend to win. Going by these quotes systems are solar system. I understand where you're coming from, but a lot of the claims you're making are based off of incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings. Not to mention, you're contradicting explicitly stated canon. [i] "[b]The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do[/b]: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE It was also said at that time that the halos didn't kill flood, and it was also implied that humans and Forerunners were related. So I'm skeptical seeing as the Canon has changed. "The Flood cover more of our galaxy with each passing day. They feast on the essence of life itself. [b]The only way to stop their advance is to remove that life upon which they feast.[/b]" -Faber, Terminal 5, Halo 4[/i][/quote] That was after the flood escaped containment, where they then proceeded to take over two thirds of the galaxy in a mere 10/4 years. Also I want to say that this is a really good debate. :)

[quote]My point is if they had a limited supply of energy they wouldn't have wasted it by placing some much biomass that served no purpose. [/quote]It actually does serve a purpose. High Charity isn't exactly the most stable space station, and since it was built around the Keyship that is no longer there, it's going to be fragile. The Flood biomass was used to support the weakened superstructure, as well as allow the Gravemind to directly alter slipspace to allow quick and safe passage to the Ark. [url=https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/canon-fodder-feet-first][i]His modifications to High Charity were far-reaching, both to keep the facility functioning after the departure of the Keyship, and to better serve as a mobile plagueship from which he could sing victory everlasting in a galaxy consumed of thinking life. But even with an intellect impossibly vast and deep, able to twist the technologies of the Covenant far beyond their original functionality by application of esoteric Precursor science, the ancient abomination was unable to both conduct a desperate bridging maneuver to the Ark and maintain the structural integrity of High Charity after its arrival.[/i][/url] [quote]The energy requirement would be enormous, we humans put about 40,000,000,000 tons of pollution into the atmosphere for year. Or about 110 million tons per day. In order for the flood to convert the the planetary ecosystem to a flood state within the mere hours/days it usually takes, they would have to pump vastly more flood spores into the atmosphere than this.[/quote]I don't really see how our pollution emissions are comparable (or even relate) to FSC spores being launched by a spore mountain. If you want to find a good comparison, I'd look at fungi - specifically [url=https://youtu.be/XuKjBIBBAL8]cordyceps.[/url] It's more about the virulent nature of the spores rather than filling up every square inch of atmosphere with them. [quote]Going by these quotes systems are solar system.[/quote]I do agree, though my questions still stand as there are many, many unknowns about the 12 systems and their quarantine. [quote]That was after the flood escaped containment, where they then proceeded to take over two thirds of the galaxy in a mere 10/4 years.[/quote]Halos were designed with that strategy in mind before the Flood returned from their defeat during the human-Forerunner wars. [spoiler]Aha! You've got responses hidden inside the giant quotes! Easy to miss those.[/spoiler]

[quote][quote]But if even a single flood infected ship survived it would have all been for not, especially seeing as the receded the galaxy right after.[/quote] Not necessarily. While Halo's pulse certainly does kill Flood, it has always been described as being meant to starve them to death. [i]"The only way to stop the Flood is to starve them to death. And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do: wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him." -Cortana, Two Betrayals, Halo CE[/i] Also, according to Silentium's epilogue, Rebirth, the Forerunners waited several years before reseeding the galaxy to ensure that their plan had actually worked. The flood could have waited a lot longer [quote]I will have to look into the burns.[/quote]Should be page 77 of Silentium. I don't have the book :( [quote]Also with Forerunner technology they simply could've slowed down time so that mere minutes to them could've been centuries to the people outside (as my early let quote shows they could manipulate time within the fractal dimensions) and just take over the Galaxy then.[/quote]While hypothetically true, in practice it's a bit different. For one, we don't know how easy it is for Forerunners to alter the flow of time in slipspace bubbles. Secondly, do not forget that nearly all Forerunner tech is based off of access keys, and specific markers to ensure that only the intended individuals can access certain things. The Flood can subvert all forerunner technology through the logic plague. The forerunners tech seem to be easily able to manipulate's time seeing as it was being done in installation 006, and the primordial's physical form was destroyed when they Iso Didact accelerated time quintillions of times over, which had no known after effect. For something like a Halo shelter, that would be very well hidden and locked down. For how powerful the Flood are, the Forerunners still kept secrets from them. IE: The Flood only learned of the Lesser Ark at the very very end of the war. So late in the war, that the Flood's battle to access it was cut short by Halo's pulse.[/quote] But they learned of it before they fired so they could have simply kept a few flood in Slipspace for safety.

Right, but that was just one example; even then, their knowledge of how to access the Lesser Ark wouldn't have saved them from Halo anyway. As far as we know, the Flood didn't know of any installations capable of surviving Halo. Even if they did, would the Flood even care to survive? The Primordial and the Graveminds are aware that weapons, even as grand and elaborate as Halo, only delay them, and they had effectively succeeded in ensuring that the Forerunners would be meaningfully erased from time with the apparent destruction of the Domain, so only their military technology and installations would be left. [i]"Like water I ebb and flow. Defeat is simply an addition of time to a sentence I never deserved, but you imposed." -Gravemind, Halo, Halo 3 "The history of all Forerunners was now lost to us. We relied upon the permanence of the Domain to preserve our record of the events that led to this point. But without that record, would future civilizations know anything about us? Or only of our weapons?" -343 Guilty Spark, Terminal 2, Halo CEA[/i] For a civilization that was built upon the belief of supporting and safeguarding life, that's a giant kick in the pants, even after they had lost everything they built over 15 million years. Welp, It's 2AM. I'ma head to bed. Appreciate the conversation though. Haven't had one like this regarding Halo's story in months.

You guys have [i][b]way[/b][/i] too much time on your hands.