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Edited by Jaymz:
2/22/2016 10:20:36 AM
576
Does Grimoire = Skill (95%+ of the time)?
Please explain your answer
[url=https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3ivw3k/does_grimoire_really_correlate_with_skill_with/]Note : Also check out this reddit post, its another experiment done with Grimoire[/url]
[b]NOTE : GHOST GIVE 760
NOTE : CALCIFIED FRAGMENTS GIVE 310[/b]
If a person has more experience they tend to have more skill.
[b]
I am not saying all low Grimoire score players are bad, I am not saying all high Grimoire score players are good. But majority of the high Grimoire score players are good, and majority of the low Grimoire score players are not good. Think about it, there are a lot of people with low Grimoire scores, some this might be there first FPS, some might be extreme casuals, some just don't care. But people with high Grimoire score play the game a lot, they care about the game and spend a lot of time on it.[/b]
Let me give you an example. I have been doing this for the past weeks and it has worked out for me. When I am looking for a raid group I would go to LFG and post something similar to this.-
[quote]Need people for a fast raid run. Only requirement I have is must have a 4600+ Grimoire score[/quote]
And I posted this morning -
[quote]Looking for 5 players to do 2 fast runs. Only requirement is to have a 4600+ Grimoire and have enough time to run it more than once. 1 run should take 50mins.[/quote]
The people who met the requirements had no problem messaging there Grimoire score, but others got so mad, they called me a "grimoire scub", "fu.cking retarded", and more stuff. Some people can't read at all and posted their light level. I didn't care about light level at all. It happened every week I've done this. It was really ridiculous.
Do you want to know the time for all 3 of my runs?
54m 27s - http://destinytracker.com/dg/4662858649 (Warlock)
1h 4m 53s - http://destinytracker.com/dg/4663058534 (Titan)
51m 39s - http://destinytracker.com/dg/4663230540 (Hunter)
All of these runs went smoothly, becasue of that one requirement. If I would've had a light level requirement there is no telling what will happen, majority of the time it just goes bad. It is so easy to get carried to 315 and it is so easy just to get there without trying. Grimoire score shows more skill then a light level. So please don't message me on LFG if you don't meet my requirements and don't say "add me" if you don't meet them either.
It's my fireteam, if you don't meet the requirements then you can't join so don't rage at me. Do you rage at someone asking for 315+ light level when you are 313? Do you rage at someone asking for Black Spindle, when you don't have the gun yet?
Now let tell you what actually goes into a Grimoire score, and its not just dead ghost -
Your grimoire score will increase if you :
Get Crucible kills on Warlock, Hunter and Titan
Get PvE kills on Warlock, Hunter, and Titan
Played during the House of Wolfs days, when fallen attacked on patrol
Killed certain bosses in PvE
Killing an amount of certain enemies in PvE
Get weapon kills with all types of weapons, not just a shotgun and hand cannon ;p
Playing multiply PvP modes and winning at them, not just control and iron banner.
Playing maps in Crucible for the first time.
Playing events in the game,
Finding ghost/frags exploring the game.
All these will increase your Grimoire score, becasue it gives you a feel for the game, you are playing the game while doing this. Yes this might be like other FPS games but it still plays a bit different. Yes some people have an awesome FPS background and are already amazing in PvP.
Someone who has been playing longer would know more. There are some prodigies in the world but not a lot, it takes time to get good. Remember in Elementary school when your teachers would always say practice makes perfect, it actually works a lot of the time but not all the time.
[b]PvP Skill section of the tread -[/b]
When I look for a trails group on LFG I always say have a 1.3 KD or higher because my KD is 1.3. I do not base PvP skills off grimoire, because lots of people have a FPS background and are good.
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If I went ghost collecting my grimoire would be 4600+ I'm still a scrub
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If you're looking for a raid group and you want to run it fast just look at raid completions, not grimoire
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Grimoire = experience Experience =\= skill
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Whenever I saw some unnecessary requirements for an LFG group, I try to join. Last one was 318+ light level and above. We beat the entire raid first try for everything, even Oryx. Another first-try-for-everything run was only 315+ light, but everyone that joined ended up being 319. So although high light level and grimoire doesn't mean you are a great player and low light level and grimoire doesn't mean you're a terrible player, they account for some sort of skill. Dedication to the game? If you're 319+ light, you either got REALLY lucky or you've beaten several challenges. Most of which will be the challneges, since those lucky ones are in the minority now. As for gimoire, about 1000 of that is from ghosts, but I think it does account for your dedication. If you ended up collecting those ghosts, for me at least, it says that you've outplayed so much Destiny that you had more than enough free time to do these arbitrary tasks. Those that know Destiny in year one(and some year 2 people) understand the importance of small things in raids, and they usually have higher grimoire score and higher light levels. You can get a feel for whether a team will do well if they're laid back, if they talk often and they do things that aren't needed. If they're in the center at the beginning of the raid and shoot the doors, if the warpriest left side kills the right side acolytes that aren't in view for the right side, if people use supers on adds constantly to rotate supers around the entire time, if someone is done with their "jobs" for that quick 5 seconds of downtime and opt to help kill the other side's adds and stay active, if someone helps shoots all ogres in view when they can and/or kills the fourth light eater knight when they could have easily just run to center for safety and waited. It's the small things that can help you determine if you have a good team, because those small things can add up and make the raid go much more smoothly. It's also those small things that players learn through experience. They don't just learn the basic mechanics, they learn where adds spawn and the timing for everything. Every tiny aspect of the raid unfolds with every playthrough and when all players are at this same level, the raid becomes extremely easy. There are always exceptions, but these unnecessary requirements can sometimes actually yield good results.
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Grimoire is just time spent. Not skill. Asking for grimoire is pointless. Skill over grimoire all day, son. Ps: If your requirements make you sound like a prick or a dbag, people are going to call you that. They don't have to like your requirements and you don't have to like their opinions.
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2 RepliesAs is your right. But don't don't be surprised when people think less of you for it.
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In my experience and with the people I play against and with, yes. I've seen a correlation where players with less grimoire are indeed not as good as players with high grimoire. Of course there are exceptions, but the majority to me is yes, grimoire does have a correlation with skill.
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Name shaming. No good.
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1 ReplyThat's based off of experience, i made a 2nd acct and get judged for going flawless and beat the raid with 1k grimoire
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5 RepliesMost likely a higher score = more game content played However, just because you may have played does not necessarily equate to more skill or higher skill level. The only way to truly determine skill level is to play with the person. If you are playing team based content then give them a chance. We were all X-mas noobs at one time.
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9 RepliesI have grimmore of like 4950: I was on a plate during oryx hard... Killed my knight then blew myself up with a rocket trying to fire at acolyte eye.....
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Edited by Sturm with no Drang: 2/18/2016 8:44:18 AMThe problem is that people forget tend to forget where PvP "skill" and PvE skill differ. The latter can be more clearly depicted as experience within the game. Grimoire mostly shows the time that a player has invested within the game such as dead ghosts, planet/enemy bonuses, exotic weapons obtained and activities participated in. A player can have a huge amount of time invested within the PvE aspects of Destiny, yet have little invested into PvP and still be considered skillful in PvE. There's a huge difference between fighting AIs and fighting other players.
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I think grim score of at least 4200 and medal score of at least 1mil would be fine
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Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. No easy answer. I will say that if you've experienced enough to have high grimoire then you have had plenty of practice.
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MOST of the time, higher grimoire = more time invested into the game
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2 RepliesI need to chase down some ghosts so I can be more betterist like these dudes.
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6 RepliesNo, because in cases like mine, I've never complete the raid due to fireteam leaving at totems.... THATS THE EASY PART
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1 ReplyThe thing is, many players won't do half the content we did in year 1. Unless they're taking grimoire score seriously. There also isn't a huge emphasis on your score like it was in year 1. Back during Crotas End and PoE, everyone was concerned about your Pokemon card score. I know ghosts give you a crap ton of grimoire. I did it back during year 1, and bumped my score up by around 400. I'm sure it's more now after TTK.
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Imo there is a point that grimoire helps tell how good a player is. For example I have 2 friends in the game at around the 4.2 mark , The first I have been playing with since the first week and he has only picked up ghosts we found ourselves whilst exploring like the one at campus 9 on Venus just seeing how high we could get. We used to do the nightfall each every week just the two of us after an lfg guy we joined was AFK for the entire strike and we still got through. Did all the raids weekly until it got boring left for a bit during vanilla and came back after how dropped which again went to bring finishing things weekly The other bought the game at Christmas , has one character , follows all the YouTube guides and the meta but still hasn't managed to get through a raid without being carried , has all the ghosts and 45+ calcified fragments is generally bottom of the table when we play pvp, he has his moments but is generally a bad player. Obviously anyone over 4.6 has done the majority of what the game has to offer, I have a lot of respect for the people with over 4.8 because they have done pretty much everything and they will generally be better purely on the amount of time they have played. As op says grimoire from crucible is for wins not participating , collecting all the exotic not just what everyone else is using . Anyway the point is there will be low grimoire players that's are better than some higher grimoire players you just can't tell until you play with them. [spoiler]but if you see a sun breaker Titan wearing Peregrine greaves because it boosts their light and looks cool , kind of gives it away [/spoiler]
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Most of the time if a person has above 4500 grimoire you can be sure they will be decent
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1 ReplyI like the fact you actually put in a decent argument for this, especially when most do not, Gj.
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Edited by theonlybradever: 2/17/2016 11:24:23 PMYou posted this exact nonsense marginally over a week ago and failed to justify your position logically that time too. Below you say: [quote]Your Grimoire score goes up by simply playing the game.[/quote] Which is an admission in your own words that Grimoire score has no real correlation to player skill. Last time you posted this thread I asked you to perform an exercise, list 3 Grimoire cards that can only be obtained without the following: -plenty of time, -repetition, -readily available instructions found on the internet. Never mind having other players carry you through an activity. [i]Skill[/i] has no real influence on Grimoire score. And making up statistics or qualifying statements like "[i]95% of the time I'm right[/i]" reduces your argument to a logical fallacy. You might as well say "[i]60% of the time it works every time.[/i]" That's how logical you sound.
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Edited by jay p: 2/17/2016 11:20:16 PMIt's your fireteam, do whatever you want. Only invite people who's first name starts with a vowel if you think it will make your runs faster. But no, it doesn't correlate to skill 95% of the time.
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2 RepliesThe truth is, a higher grimore usually means a player is more skilled, because it would seem they have done more in game. So they should be better right? However, a player with a low grimore can easily be better than a player with a high grimore score. So grimore is more of a show of how long you have played, not the quality of playtime. I know high grimore players that suck, and low grimore player who are amazing. (As you stated) However, a player is truely skilled if they assemble a team of noobs, teaches them what to do, and completes the activity as fast as an elitist team can. I have done that many times in end game activities, when those activities were end game. But in all seriousness, i hope elitists keep posting for 4600+ or whatever requirement they want. It lets me know who not to play with, because 9/10 times those elitists are arrogant scrubs. (And yes, i meet the requirements).(and that conclusion has been made through personal experience, and interestingly it has not changed since the beta [yes, elitist crucible teams were a thing back then, the pve elitists started in launch week, well before the vault of glass was released.]) High grimore score is associated with skill because of the experience players get from playing long enough to rack the score up, but it mostly doesn't directly translate to player skill. So the answer is yea, but also no. If you guys want to have requirements, thats fine. Its your fireteam. I'm not offended, play the game your way. But you did, however, ask for the player bases' opinion.
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1 ReplyI can't vote because I'd say yes and no. Yes, because if you have say 4500+, I know you've taken the time to put some effort into the game. It also shows you've completed a good amount of the game. However, then there is no. Some people don't wanna search for ghosts, only play crucible, etc.
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Time played > grimore imo
