To everyone who says that the answer is to stop nerfing and only buff weapons, that is an awful idea. Because in the end, you will end up with ridiculous times to kill across the whole game just like CoD has. And then people will just go back to crying for nerfs.
The real solution lies with specific weapon tuning. And here's why;
Many people have been crying for a nerf for the Mida. But Mida is one of the only balanced guns left. It's not op and does NOT need a nerf. The problem is that every other weapon type has been unnecessarily nerfed. The problem is that when one weapon out of a weapon type is op, the whole class takes on a nerf instead of that specific weapon.
When the SUROS was op, every auto got nerfed. When Thorn and TLW were op, every hand cannon got nerfed. When Red Death was op, every pulse rifle got nerfed. And the reason all of these weapon types climbed to the top wasn't because the others were nerfed, but because those types were also buffed across the whole weapon types. See where I'm going with this? It doesn't make sense and is an awful way to manage weapon balancing. We need weapon specific tuning, and yes, that still includes nerfing, but not whole archetype tuning. That is what's destroying this games balancing; a lack of in depth research and tuning. And instead, Bungie slaps blanket nerfs and buffs across every weapon in every update.
If Bungie starts tweaking specific weapons that need some buffing or nerfing instead of tweaking weapons that will potentially become op or far underpowered (like ALL autos back in vanilla) with the new stats applied because they didn't actually need tuning, then I believe balance will be much easier to achieve in this game.
I will cut Bungie some slack though. Because when people see a weapon being used frequently, people come to the forums and ask for the whole class to be nerfed instead of asking for that one weapon to be tweaked. That also needs to stop.
NOTE: I want to make it clear that this is just MY opinion. I'm not trying to speak on behalf of every single person playing. I know many people feel differently about how things should be handled, and that's why I made this a poll. I would like to hear everybody's opinions in the comments. Please be respectful and open-minded to all kinds of opinions and leave the hate out of this thread.
EDIT: This post is not saying that we only need nerfs either, as many of you are taking it. This post is saying we need in depth balancing and not blanket values slapped across full weapon types. Meaning that if two specific weapons need tuning, then tune THOSE weapons, and not every weapon in that class, as Bungie has been doing. I don't believe we need only buffs. But that also doesn't mean that we only need nerfs. It means we need both. They both compliment each other. Having a game where you only use one of those balancing tactics would destroy the game. Whether it's only buffing or only nerfing. You can't do just one if you want to achieve real balance. But, the reason many of your favorite guns feel underpowered now isn't specifically because of nerfs. But rather how Bungie handles their nerfs. They nerf weapons that don't potentially need these nerfs when they nerf FULL subclasses of weapons in the name of one or two being overpowered.
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Dont make mida 4 shot headshot neglect the accuracy buff of hand cannons for last word. Increase Hawkmoon's range by +10 Increase the Damage Caused By Glass Half Full. Suros Regime's Spinning Up Perk Happens 2 seconds earlier. Increase Auto Rifle Range +5
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Every weapon needs to be buffed to have a similar TTK which would bring into question your skill level rather than what weapon is OP
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Edited by Freund117: 2/1/2016 2:02:03 PMWhere's the we need buffs and nerfs option lol You make it seem like one or other
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Better than nerfing everything.....
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You're right buffing isn't the answer alway but now we need weapons to be buffed now. I see no one using auto rifles and fusion rifles on both PvE and PvP, pulse rifle are trying to find there play again, hand cannons aren't reliable and shotguns aren't the best for PvE( at least for me). What I'm trying to say is we need buffs to weapons right now but eventually down the road we will eventually need nerfs to
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Nerfing has -blam!-ed the game up and listening to whiny ass bitches all the time is -blam!-ed up too!
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Here's the problem. Right now the MIDA is relatively OP because everything has been nerfed. So yes, while targeted nerfs would have been appropriate a year ago, they are not appropriate now. Now in fact buffs, and only buffs, are the correct solution. Not forever, but people act like it always has to be one or the other or both simultaneously. Nothing but buffs ever again will be fine if we get to a balanced state then never touch weapon balance again, but that won't happen. So inevitably yes, nothing but buffs forever will lead to ridiculousness. Nothing but nerfs, even targeted nerfs, will lead to the opposite problem and then no guns are fun to use at all. They've already butchered entire weapon classes and then left them there because of nerfs. Worse it just kills PvE. Both buffs and nerfs are necessary. The problem Bungie has is they lack finesse. Either the effect is pathetically small (like a .4% or whatever buff to autorifle damage) and does nothing, or the effect is way too large like literally every nerf they've ever done.
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Fair points and as you said,it's your own opinion.I personally think that all exotics shouldn't be nerfed in any form.But I am a pve player so my two cents is biased to what I enjoy.The last word is the only true exotic left.Take hawkmoon for example.Holding aces stacking on one bullet was,along with its range,the perfect gun for me when I went pvp.Think my point is,by nerfing all the awesome exotics,people lose the drive to attain them.Then we get angry with bungie because they gave in to the crying.Buff to year one awesomeness.Peace Brother.
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Its because people lack skills. Before the thorn nerf i could beat it out with suros or mida. Buffs are the answer if all guns were good nobody would have a reason to cry
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Red Death was never OP. It fell to the same fate that MIDA unfortunately will.
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KONY 2012!!! KONY TWENTY TWELVVVVVE!
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Snipers and shotguns are already a one hit kill, so it would balance out the time to kill of them. Why do people use shotguns and snipers so much? Not because it requires skill, but because they are the only things in the game that can kill in less than 1 second, whereas some of the primaries, like auto rifles, can take up to over 10 bullets to kill sometimes. This is why Halo multiplayer was so bad because shotguns and snipers can kill you so fast, but it takes so long to kill with other weapons. They could either make shotguns and snipers take more time to kill, which isnt a popular idea, or they could buff the other ones.
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This community has downs and can only see white and black; there is no gray zone.
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This is something not many people understand, and sadly, due to that, the community thinks that nerfing weapons is bad. I agree entirely with your statement.
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At this point I'm done seeing a few tweaks here and there. I just want effective weapons not pvp but PVE as well! Fighting the AI with squirt guns is getting old. Weapons shouldn't have to suffer just because of that small portion of the game.
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Edited by xXxDSMer: 1/31/2016 1:25:30 PM@OP: in your fourth paragraph, you forgot shotguns. All shotguns got nerfed because of problematic shotguns (the felwinters lie type shotguns with high range AND high impact). And the problem with most if not all of bungie's tuning decisions: is that they base them on popularity of something... absolutely not on effectiveness of something.
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The thing is though, there are only weapons that need a small buff. Shotguns are fine and require an amount of skill now. Scout rifles are fine. Snipers are fine, maybe just make the Hidden Hand perk only possible on low AA snipers.(not that AA helps a whole lot with snipers, but a 60+ AA sniper doesn't need more.) Hawkmoon needs it's range back. Auto rifles need a small damage buff. Fusion rifles need a slight buff to stability and a slightly smaller cone. Most Hand cannons are fine. Even the ones with really bad range can get enough with the right perks. Rocket launchers are fine. LMGs might need a tad less ammo when picking up crates in PvP. Swords are fine. Pulse rifles are fine.
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Right now we need nothing but buffs mostly every class that was cried for nerfs were completely destroyed and only a few guns came out of it unscreen.
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Revert the Pulse Rifle nerf Buff the Autos Increase Fusion stability If those changes are made then we'll have a pretty good balance going on, imo
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Either Nerf Mida, or Buff Everything Else including health Same result so I'm happy either way, but I suspect Nerfing Mida is the easier fix Also, claiming a weapon is 'balanced' doesn't make it so
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Edited by Highway-pilot: 1/29/2016 5:21:18 PMWhat lacks is accurate stats displayed in game and Bungies very odd secret of how things work period. They must truly think the game will be destroyed by people knowing what armor really is, range, stability, impact, etc. Truly mind blowing.
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Obviously some things will come along and need nerfed, but there is aot more that needs buffed