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1/27/2016 4:39:38 PM
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I'm not voting for Bernie, and while this example takes socialism to it's extreme in a parody... it's wholly incorrect as to how the economy works.
The issue of wealth inequality isn't just a matter of taxes, social programs and surpluses. If the rich decided to all leave (where the hell would they go in the first place?), it's not going to create an economic boon for 1 location and absence of money in another locale.
The issue of wealth inequality, occurs when those in power & money, continue to make decisions that only exponentially grow their wealth while stagnating the people they need to get there. That's the true issue of wealth inequality. It's not an issue about working hard, working smarter or even being a cutthroat businessman, it's the decisions that the super wealthy make, which impact the middle class.
To counter with an extreme example of this, think of a big business that makes billions of dollars. The CEO wants to increase stock value for the company, so he needs to show more profits.
However, sales are pretty regular each year... 1 billion in sales in each year approximately, which holds steady in each year. But to make that 1 billion look better, they find places to cut expenses and costs. Because if the company spends 500 million, then it only makes 500 million. But if they only spend 400 million, then they walk away with 600 million.
So where do you cut the 100 million? How about benefits? How about bonuses? How about vacation time? How about training?
Cool, that saves 100 million! And that increase the stock value of the company, to which the CEO has plenty of stock options (where most of the super wealthy have made their fortunes). But that 100 million in savings, came at the expense of medical coverage, vacation time, and additional cash for employees.
This is the heart of wealth inequality. It's not just taxing the super rich, it's how are the super rich getting there, at the expense of the middle class workers.
English
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Edited by Szeth6678: 1/27/2016 7:22:20 PMThank you sir. Well said. I may not fully agree with your stance, but I do respect you.
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No one is forcing the workers to stay when their benefits are cut, a company includes benefits to attract the best/most qualified workers. If there is high demand for someone's particular skill set they will have no problem finding a job elsewhere if they are unsatisfied with the pay/benefits of the company they are currently at. The caveat here is to be smart and choose a career path that is in high demand, don't take out loans and major in art. If you do that you've gone into debt and educated yourself in a field where demand for your knowledge/skill set is low.
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Edited by JLoco11: 1/27/2016 7:26:10 PMAgain, incredibly short sighted way of looking at business. Of course nobody is FORCING them to stay, but do you think it's easy for people to just get up 1 day and leave their jobs? Do you think every single person was given the same opportunities in life to find a field in demand (of course you wouldn't because this is thesis if your whole point). Someone living in New York City, has a wealth of job options available to them. They have education & professional options that they can take full advantage of. But compare that to towns in the midwest or mountain ranges with 500 people. Compare that towns in Mississippi or Alabama with extreme poverty. Shit, compare that to the people in Flint Michigan right now, where some politician (rich guy) made the decision to save money on water by re-routing their water supply from a polluted river. Oh hay, let's just all get up and move because CroatCaptain thinks this easy! Thinks this is feasible that people below middle class have the same opportunities. Thinks choice in this country isn't tied to economic standing or quality of life. It's one thing if someone is absolutely lazy, has every opportunity to make something of their life and pisses it away. But the reality is 15% of the country can barely afford a pot to piss in. 18% have access to substandard education. As for career paths and how abhorrently wrong you are, 15-25 years ago, 3 of the most steady positions in US business were chemical engineer, jewelers and journalists. In 2016, each have seen more than 60% drops in their fields. Guess what, fields in demand always change and for workers who are 50+ years old now, working in these fields, that once worked in the steadiest job market, are now marginalized. Times change... greed, inequality and lack of opportunity never has though.
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Your entire reply ignores the central point of my statement, having a skill-set that is in high demand. You will make less if there is low demand and a high supply of people with your skill-set. That is a fact, it is not greed it is economic law. Success requires a combination of working hard and working smart, no one can artificially inflate the value of a particular skill-set, say fast food workers, if there is a high supply of people with that skill-set
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Edited by JLoco11: 1/27/2016 8:02:08 PMAnd once again, your entire post is in fantasy land of having a skill set that's in high demand! Because times change. Do you pay attention the news? North Dakota went through a massive oil boom for the past 5 years, making overnight millionaires and having thousands of people flock to there for work. People made great money. Business was booming as long as oil prices were at record highs of $80 a barrel. Jobs were plentiful because oil rigging and drilling is a fine skill that takes training and years of experience to master and perfect, and plenty of top notch equipment to do it properly. Oil just dropped below $30 per barrel for the first time in 12 years. Guess which state is leading in unemployment claims for the month of January? Huh, North Dakota... who would have thought! Your whole central argument, collapses in reality. High demand, high skill only matters when the world dictates high skill and high demand. Oil was a central part of world economy for the past 20 years, and in just 6 full months, the price has sent the industry into it's own mini recession. Thousands of workers who were highly skilled, and in demand, are now looking for work elsewhere. But hey, according to you they could just pick up and move! I'm sure Silicon Valley and the demand for the most elite programmers is looking for oil drillers! Low paying jobs, will always be low paying jobs... and most likely populated by people who didn't have the chance to learn high demand skills in life compared to hard knocks survival lessons. Reality son...... use it.
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Smart people will use this dip in oil prices as a chance to enter the market and invest in that commodity.
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And by "smart" you mean those who are looking to get rich off of stock market gambling. Those with money to spend and burn on investing, and those that will benefit from thousands upon thousands of lost jobs. It's exactly how the housing market collapse years ago started. It's exactly how the .com era ended with a recession. It's how insurance and banking ended up causing a recession. "Smart" people risking money on the concept of an industry losing money. Are you the spokesperson for Lunacy or something?
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Gov't involvement has its hands all over the drop in oil prices. Our oil companies are profitable at $50 oil, they are insanely profitable at 80-100$ oil. What recent deal just released an entire foreign oil producing nation's oil supply onto the international market? Oh that's right the Obama/Kerry Iran deal! There wouldn't be massive unemployment in these oil producing states if sanctions on Iran were not lifted. Combine that with laws against the U.S. Exporting oil and laws against drilling on federal land and the U.S.A. has regulated its way out of challenging OPEC for market share. Gov't involvement directly played a part in tanking the price of oil
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Edited by JLoco11: 1/27/2016 8:26:03 PMOh lord, do you have your tinfoil hat on today? Because clearly you have no idea how global business works other than some imaginary "information" you believe to be accurate. 1) Oil prices have BEEN falling since the end 2014. The peak high of oil was June 2014, well before sanction of Iran were lifted. Clearly timelines are not your strong suit nor is actual FACT or information. 2) Since 2011, US oil production has grown 18 fold. 18 times the amount of oil we once produced, was now coming from our own supplies. 3) OPEC (a cartel which the US is not apart of), refused to lower oil production to keep prices high. You can thank King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia for not lowering oil production to the dismay of the other OPEC members (Venezuela, Iran, Ecuador & Algeria). He feared by slowing down oil, his country would slide into a recession...... which it did anyway. 4) Venezuela's damn near financial collapse under Chavez, which put more money into oil production than food necessities, caused them to overproduce oil and massively inflate prices of other imports and exports. Their food inflation alone, has caused their economic collapse of an oil market since countries will not pay their high tax import fees just to keep oil prices steady. 5) Obama administration has blocked the Keystone pipeline... an oil stream. And guess what, by blocking it, they just saved the country close to $40 billion over the next 11 years now, because the monetary gains the Koch brothers stated they would receive from oil prices, are now gone. 6) Lifting sanctions on Iran, occurred when oil prices were already $35 a barrel. They were already low to begin with, all because of the prior 5 factors. Seriously, if you're going to talk world economics with someone, please know your foot from your ass. You're not dealing with some teenage kid, although I'm starting to believe that you fall into that category judging by your incoherent lack of facts. On a side note... do you remember Obama's 2008 Vice Presidential opponent? A crazy unknown lady named Sarah Palin who seems to have profited off the spotlight? Remember her slogan of Drill Baby Drill? We did, and look at what happened. A surplus of oil that is keeping prices low and throwing the world economy into flux once again. Gas prices are nice and cheap, but a global recession is just around the corner if prices keep falling.
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All very correct, but I'm sure Bernie plans to address that and more. It's also worth pointing out while we're on the subject, that the whole argument against the minimum wage is bogus. in Denmark, a Mc Donald's manager makes something like $22/hour and you know what it cost the company? An extra 20-40 cents on a Big Mac. Oh noes. The reality is that while higher wages will cause price increases, the increase in purchasing power greatly offsets this - not to mention prices tend to go up anyway (a little thing called inflation) and higher wages help combat this. The current trends and policies are incredibly short-sighted and ultimately self-defeating as potential customer bases are actually shrinking and people are just generally more miserable. You don't have to be an economist to figure out that if the general public has more money to blow, chances are they're gonna buy more stuff or at least pay their bills on time & that's good for everyone.
