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1/27/2016 2:12:50 PM
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All I will say about this... Since I can't have a legitimate debate, without disturbing those with words they don't want to hear..
Bernie supporters are intelligent enough to realize they want free stuff, but not intelligent enough to realize that free stuff doesn't exist. Someone always has to pay for it, but anyone who doesn't believe in a free market capitalist society, but supports Bernie from their $1000 iPhones, has got to be pretty stupid...
Also, The great thing about Bernie supporters is that you always know that if you are losing an argument, there is always a question they can never truly answer: How do you pay for it?
They will say taxing the top 1% and cutting military spending. But reliable estimates price Bernie's policies at about 18-19 trillion dollars in addition to the debt we already have. To use a ridiculous example, if you were to tax the top 1% at an astronomical 100% tax rate and cut every single dime of military spending you wouldn't even come close.
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Edited by Nen Rx: 1/27/2016 11:57:21 PMI agree completely. And the other thing that they always assume (and it is a fool's errand to do so) is that all this money that comes in from taxing the top 1% goes to the middle class and under privileged. Wrong! The vast majority goes to the government aka (Bernie and company). You think they are actually going to pass that money straight on to the middle class and underprivileged without lining their own pockets? Ha! You are voting for a guy that is essentially saying "I want to run on a platform where I take people's money away from them." You think that type of guy is going to redistribute it? It's been proven time and time again in history that as government taxes more, gets bloated, and more bureaucratic that more and more energy and money are wasted on nothing. They love the big complex social programs because they are so convoluted that no one notices that the government is lining their own pockets with all this taxed money. Bill Clinton was a master of this practice. Lets say Bernie taxes all that money and starts a social services that gives every middle class and underprivileged American a sprocket. People love sprockets so they are happy. What you don't realize because you're so pumped about your "free" sprocket is that Bernie spent 75% of that money he taxed on his own vanity projects and special interests. He taxed the people enough to give everyone 4 sprockets and instead gave everyone 1 sprocket and kept the rest to dump back in to this evil self-serving machine we have in Washington at the moment. And then Bernie supporters will sit there saying "Yes! I got a free sprocket". When in reality he swindled you and all the other tax payers. Oldest trick in the book. And no one is clever enough to realize this dude just got rich off of selling the whole country snake oil. Give em the ol' razzle dazzle. People fall for it every time.
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You are my hero. Thank you.
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Do you get your information from Donald Trump?
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You pay for it by raising taxes. I'm a firm believer in taxes. You just have to do it smartly.
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So what do we do then? Continue on the same path as we are now? Because facts are facts. Our people are fat stupid and have tons of weapons. In what world does having more intelligent healthy people become a bad thing? Oh you believe in trickle down right? Because we should be happy the rich provide us with anything! If you have a pie, would you rather share it with 2 people or 9? There is a limited amount of wealth in this country. We have been hoping and praying for years that the rich will do what they promise and they continuosly shit the bed. Guess we should keep running on the same hamster wheel right?
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Nope, sir I believe that you should work for what you have, and what you get. The people getting handouts, living on welfare, part of the illegal immigrant groups that need to leave, and it's a wonder they've been able to stay this long are cancers to the legitimate citizens that work for a living, have well paying jobs, and the LEGAL CITIZENS of the U.S. Every other country in the world has a strong immigration policy, and they hold true to it. If you're caught there without a passport, or illegally (since it's kinda the same) you're deported. Instantly. Why shouldn't the United States be the same. The one country that spends this much time on immigration, doesn't give a shit evidently.. Legal process to stay- Welcome, glad you're here, now get a job and work for your living. Illegal immigrant- get the hell out.
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This level of ignorance is astonishing. Have you ever met any illegal immigrants? Have you met people on welfare? Their lives aren't sunshines and rainbows. I Guess working the farm fields isn't hard right? Most get paid below minimum wage because they aren't citizens. Here's the shocker, since 2010 illegal immigration has had a net loss. This means more people are leaving this country then entering. I guess it's still a problem right? Because God knows removing them there illegals is more important than our education and healthcare systems! I am all for accountability. However, conservatives like to shit on others while judging others. Liberals are PC right? Even though Fox news is always the station saying video games and movies are ruining our youth. Guess it isn't the parents fault right? Conservatives think that guns don't kill people, people kill people! Yet these are the same people that have made weed illegal because it ruins lives. Haven't you heard the stories of random bags of weed shooting up churches, schools and movie theaters? I hate both sides. Super PC liberals need to grow a sack. However, their ideals are far more intelligent than the window lickers that inhabit the Right.
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My sister-in-law is on welfare and every other government program in the book. She has three kids (very nice kids). She knows the all the social welfare programs inside and out. Rents a decent house that is section 8 and doesn't work at all. She constantly barbs me about how I'm the stupid one for going into the military to put myself through college and then working hard at a 9 to 5 while working toward a retirement. Then, she gets her other three friends that live the same life as her and they all like to brag about how easy life is when they don't have to work and that is what America is all about. Sorry Timmy No Thumbs but in my experience, people stay on welfare and leech off social programs because they can so they don't have to give effort or risk failing out in the world where you don't depend on a government to protect you. The only way to get them off their asses in my opinion is to cut them off.
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So because you have a lazy ass sister-in-law everyone else is abusing the system? There are plenty of corporations abusing the system but that's ok right? The reason people don't want to get off welfare is because the job market sucks. If she were to get a job it would be most likely for minimal pay when she also must afford day care and other expenses. Where is your brother in all this? Is he assisting her or? Leaving out that piece of information is important.
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Edited by Nen Rx: 1/28/2016 12:25:20 AMAssumptions... assumptions... you're good at those. I have no siblings. She is my wife's sister. Her husband left her because he's a scumb-bag (although quite frankly, she is hard to deal with too). He too lives the social handout lifestyle. So does most of his family. He was raised to think that is the smart way to live. No need to work or try hard. Let the government take care of you. That is what they are there for. You likely assumed the person that left her was my brother because we are engaged in an argument. So to you, I'm the bad guy. So since I'm the bad guy, pretty safe to assume that a person I am related to is the one causing these problems with her. Never even thought for a second that sister-in-law could mean she's my wife's sister, did you? Oh, and my point is yes. Most people I've that are involved in multiple social welfare programs do enjoy the fact that they don't have to work a dead end job to get by. But I shouldn't be taxed more because I worked hard and put myself through college and got a decent career and they chose to throw in the towel early on in life and not fight for a better future. And no. The corporations abusing the system in the way they do is evil too and should be stopped as well. I'm not for turning the U.S. in to the Wild West and deregulating everything. I'm just saying raising taxes to bolster social services and "redistribute" wealth is always a veil for take hard working peoples money, throw a crumb or two at the poor to keep them happy and ignorant, and lets make ourselves (the politicians) richer.
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You are looking way too much into the brother thing. Nowhere did you mention you had a wife so when telling someone you have a sister in law the most logical answer is you have a brother. Making a bad guy wasn't my point. My point was to show that there are many factors that determine why someone chose a certain lifestyle. I agree holding people accountable and having them take responsibility helps. However, while college was accessible for you it might not be for others. Absorbing a slightly larger cost now will pay off in the future. Reducing the cost of college means more people can attend and graduates have less money to worry about. All of these student loans are given to some loan agency that makes billions of dollars. When more people get better paying jobs, the cost can be spread among even more people. Splitting a $1000 debt between 5 people is a lot easier then splitting it between 2 people. I don't know about you but I would gladly pay higher taxes even though there are people like your sister in law. Because guess what? For every 1 of her there are 10-20 families that struggle and work hard to get by. Our economic system requires people to be at the bottom so to just forget them is ignorant. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
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Edited by Nen Rx: 1/28/2016 12:38:15 AMWays to get through college when you have virtually nothing: 1. Go in to the military and serve to obtain the post 9/11 Montgomery G.I. Bill. 2. Go to a community college and utilize BOG fee waivers and grants to not only completely pay for college, but also make money via grant while there (nearly everyone qualifies... especially low income people). 3. Setup a GTA from a community college to go to a state university which will effectively pay for the majority of your final two years of under grad school. 4. Find a great two year program that equates to high pay and good career like being an R.N. (in my state RN's make 80K to 100K annually) and this doesn't even require ever going to a four year college. You can obtain this at the community college level. These are just some of the options available to most of the people that I know that live the social welfare life. All the ones I know could have taken advantage of any of these or multiple and got ahead in life if they just would have been willing to sacrifice and work for it. But they would never do that. Way too tough. I suspect it is because they are lazy and all of that above is harder than sitting on their ass all day eating frozen pizza bites. See you seem to tend to see the world in the light of, "Hey man, it's tough out there... show some compassion.. people are trying." I see the world through the lens of, "Seems like people are lazy and make excuses. I'm sick of having to sacrifice money from my paycheck that could be going towards my family to let people not work because life is tough and scary."
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"Join the military!" as an argument is a joke. No one should be forced to join our army because it's the only way to further themselves. This idea is based around the principle that the poor should fight our wars while the rich get to dictate our wars. Community colleges do provide a pathway. I chose this route because it is inherently cheaper. However, the programs that you suggested like RN are highly impacted. My local CC's receive hundreds of applicants a year and can only accept a small minority of them. What are the rest supposed to do? They can apply for other schools but ultimately there is a limited amount of spots available. By removing the cost barrier of Universities we can encourage those that can handle higher levels of college to pursue the higher levels of education. Those who want too can pursue the lower level training that comes with AA programs.
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Hey, I joined the military to put my self through school. It is not an argument. It is a viable option and it helped me tremendously. To call it a joke is insulting. Most of your comments have been asinine in my opinion, but that is the first comment you've said that is actually insulting in my opinion. I served with plenty of people who came from good homes and weren't poor. My father made great money and I grew up in an upper-middle class home and he wanted me to go to West Point to become an officer in the Army. Poor has nothing to do with it. I'm just saying it is a viable option that will get you through school. And an honorable one at that. Yeah, RN programs are stacked and tough to get into, guess you better work your ass off and have the best grades and beat out the others. Every point you try to make looks at society as a whole. How can we all be happy? How can we all get by? Because that naive viewpoint of yours isn't is hollow and false. It always has been. And it always will be.
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I meant no disrespect. I appreciate everything our soldiers do but having the military as the primary way people move throughout our economic classes is absurd. Joining the military should be because of your personal dreams not because you need the money for college. You are risking your life hoping that you can make something of your family. People should not have to resort to that to succeed. The thing about most programs is that it eventually becomes a lottery. Let's say a program accepts 40 people annually, out of that 40 only 20 get in based off of grades. The rest are put into a lottery and whoever gets chosen gets in. You could work your butt off and still not get in. I focus on society as a whole because that's what the federal government controls. If a state or county feels different then they have the capacity to change the laws in their area. A $15 minimum wage in CA is a lot different then a $15 wage in OK. The federal government should set the basic rules and guidelines while the states can go into specifics depending upon their populations beliefs.
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1 Trillion BUMPS
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Yes, as a matter of fact I have, and I cared for her and her family. When her family was killed in a car accident, and they didn't want to care for her as she had an expired visa. It pissed me off that they would turn her away. But that's besides the point. When Obama mentions care for illegal immigrants, and they almost legitimately turned her away? You bet I have something against the policies as a whole. I personally couldn't give a shit, as my initial point was to mention that Bernie sanders' plan would ultimately fail and cause even more debt than already existed... Making the economy worse, and all the people in favor of his "golden policies" would soon see it was bullshit. With all of this though, doesn't mean I favor it either.. I still believe you should work for your living, and handouts shouldn't be available.
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That is an extremely ignorant view of life. You act as if a majority of people aren't willing to work. Most people realize the system we have now is a failure. This is not my opinion this is fact. So you just said you have experienced someone who was screwed by the system and you still think they get it too good? I'm sorry but it really is a joke. College isn't going to become easy. Healthcare will still make money. But in what dumbass world does having smarter healthier people become a bad thing? Look beyond what you see and think and maybe you will start becoming less ignorant.
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It's not that most people aren't willing to work. It is that most people that have found their way in to the system and don't have to work because the government uses tax dollars to "help" them don't want to work. That isn't an ignorant view. That is the human condition. We naturally take the path of least resistance.
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Exactly. But most welfare recipients aren't living luxurious lifestyles. Most struggle and need the assistance just to get by. Your personal experience may vary but the fact remains that most people are trying. The system has been set up to stunt growth while at the same time encouraging people to complain about said problems.
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Edited by Nen Rx: 1/28/2016 12:27:00 AMThey are not living luxurious life styles by any means. But they live a life-style that affords them to sit on their asses every day, play video games on DSL, and eat hot pockets endlessly off EBT. They would much rather stay doing that because it is easier than working hard to get an education or a skill that give them a shot at a career. Luxury has nothing to do with my point. And I don't agree with you that most are trying. From what I've seen, most either don't want to try because it is easier and "safer" to live on the government dole (those are the real shit bags) or have given up (and that is heartbreaking).
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Do you work with these people though? My mother is a social worker for her county. She is heartbroken because every day people come to her that shouldn't have too. Those who choose to live on welfare only would do so no matter what the economic system is. They are willfully choosing to struggle their entire lives and own nothing. I am all for work programs and workshops being a requirement for assistance. If you want your assistance you must prove that you are doing everything within your power to better yourself. The reality is that corporate welfare, low minimum wages, and the extremely high costs of healthcare and education are far more important issues than taking money away from those who choose to abuse the system.
