Answers: Your three points against 16 Orb strat points - 1. Ogres can be killed by one person with a 320 ToM and a high enough light level. No big deal there, but it doesn't often come to that anyway. 2. Ogres don't teleport ever so long as your Ogre DPS is maintaining at least one person agro. This is a mechanic, not a glitch. So as long as you're doing it well, no need to worry about teleport. 3. My team has never had any issue dying while killing the knights. Not even once. I don't run that role. I am the designated relic runner so maybe my team is just really good or really lucky, but no one ever dyes during ogre/knight killing part. They only used to die during detonation phase and running away from Oryx's bombardment. Your three points for no knight strat - 1. Maybe not, but when you jump up to come make it back center you've got more eyes out if you have just let the ogres roam free so that is more dangerous right there. 2. I don't understand the point you're trying to make with your point two. Seems like fluff. 3. This is the big flaw in your strat... you have no control where your ogre goes. You let him roam so one team mates bomb might be stairs left all the way back by the stairs while another persons bomb is Saturn right just below where you jump down from the platforms. This lack of symmetry and the added coordination it takes between team mates running different distances to detonate bombs is way to reckless. Your chance of success isn't in your own hands on no knight strat. It is in the AI hands of the ogres and where they roam. With 16 orb, you have full control and again, statistically speaking, leaving the aura 1 time for detonation is mathematically smarter than leaving it 4 separate times throughout a battle. My teams have always been the exact same teams so no issues in difference in skill. I'll pass on running with you guys. Definitely not interested but thanks anyways. And shade is way easier than running bombs phase. Running bombs phase is a glitch fest and people wipe there constantly. The shade phase... he is usually killed as he approaches on his first roam which means three whole players never even get teleported in. It is the easiest part of the whole fight.