This was mentioned I believe in the post when they were going over the titan changes. While I commend the idea. The idea is only as good as when it's working in reality. not just on paper. Here today i'm going to prove that the design team's claim was junk. and that if this was a major reason for over nerfing sunbreakers then all other subclasses need major changes as well. or at the very least most of them. Night stalker: a) pve wise there is only one good loadout. bloodbound, vanish in smoke, light of the pack, shade step. b) pvp. Black hole, envenomed, lockdown, shade step/keen scout. c)) pvp. quiver, vanish in smoke, lockdown, shade step/keen scout. NS is a good designed class. but snare, pred, and courage are all wastes of slots. Blade dancer: a) pve one clear build. specced for full invis. b) pvp one clear build. blink, razors edge, fast twitch, quick draw, and hungering. The problem with BD is half the class is based in stealth play. which is basically non existent in pvp. Gunslinger: a) pve one clear build. combustion, fire blade, gunslingers trance, chain of woe. b) pvp one clear build. gun fighter, knife juggler, scavenger, gamblers dagger. Knife even with the dot can't one shot a full healthed guardian. increasing GG accuracy and range is wasted in both parts of the game. and stacking effects work poorly in pvp since there is less targets and you die much more often. Void walker: a) pve one clear build. shatter, life steal, annihilate, bloom. b) pvp. basically same as pve except you swap life steal for soul rip. Energy drain effect is kind of underwhelming. maybe if it was stackable it would be better. also angry magic and lance are worthless talents. You can technically eek out another build for pvp if you use a certain exotic. But I'm talking about base builds. not ones that rely on gear. Sunsinger: a) one clear pve build. fire born, flame shield, viking, touch of flame. b)pvp build. same as above. but swap fireborn with radiant skin. Which to me doesn't make it a whole other build. so.. c) the clear pvp build. radiant skin, flame shield, radiant will, gift of the sun. All melee talents besides flame shield are useless. sun burst relies on rng. technically if you have HoTP on with max int and song of flame you became a pretty good support person. unfortunately this requires a piece of armor. if base song of flame was this good then we'd be cooking with fire. Storm caller: a) clear pve build. super conductor, rising storm, feed back, arc web. b) pvp. ionic blink, rising storm, feed back, perpetual charge. c) pvp build. landfall, amplitude, trancendance, perpetual charge. I've omitted the no super build for it requires 2 gear pieces. Storm caller is well designed. chain lightning, pulse wave, and mind are all wasted talents. But on the bright side. they are the better ones of wasted talents as far as all other classes are concerned. Striker: a) hesitant to say there is a pve build. it's really more suited for pvp. So I won't add one. b) pvp. shockwave, amplify, transfusion, shoulder charge. c) pvp. after math, overload, after shocks, unstoppable. You can swap around a few things in either setup. but there really isn't enough there to make a third seperate build. Striker is actually well designed despite only 2 clear builds. It's downside is that it's pvp focused. Defender: a) pve there is a lot of flexibility here. blessing/weapons, war machine, bastion/gift, illuminated. b) pvp also has some flexibility. but in my mind there isn't enough there to make 2 seperate builds. armor of light, unbreakable, relentless/gift (when bubble is popped by a super it drops 3 orbs for your team including the 2 when casted. basically a free super for your team) untouchable. well designed. despite only have 2 really good ways to play with it and slight variations. Sunbreaker: a) one clear way to play pve. full sunspot build with fleetfire. b) technically 2 ways to play here. but since one of them is the sunspot build minus fleetfire it only counts as one. c) clear pvp build. forge master, stoke the forge, explosive pyre, cauterize. as of right now you need the benefits of explosive and forge master to counter act the radius nerf because proxy det is ruining kills. flame seeker is hot trash now. it barely tracked before. it does even less now. and they removed both passive stats on it. fleet fire stacks. which again is bad in pvp. Sunbreaker is not designed well. and is even worse now due to the patch. So lets tally this up. subclasses with 3 true ways to play it: 2. How many subclasses are well designed: 5. How many subclasses need to be looked into: 4. What are the problem classes that are in dire need of changes? Blade dancer, sunbreaker, sun singer gunslinger. Which isn't surprising. According to bungie's charts blade dancer is no where on the top player charts. sunbreaker is only mentioned in control. sun singer is pretty close tied in elimination with at least 2 other classes. gunslinger only pulls it in on clash. To be fair Night stalker was also not topping any charts. but it's not due to a design issue. and void walker wasn't up their either. also despite being pretty decent itself. (though it needs some talent changes.) I hope this was insightful for some. I don't have solutions for the classes that need changes. and I don't feel any decent ones have been suggested. This thread all though focused a little on sunbreakers was to point out a flaw in Bungie's supposed design. this is due to them either relying on gear choices, plain bad talents, or simply because subclasses really don't have any depth to them. I assure you all that I think the sunbreaker needed a nerf. I just wouldn't take it the route they did. and this "reason" they came up with isn't a very good one.