{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
originally posted in:The Ashen Conflux
Edited by Ruin Tree:
11/23/2015 10:03:10 PM
148
The Hive and the Beckenstein Limit
[b]WARNING[/b]: This post is not for the faint of heart. It contains advanced modern physics, including but not limited to: branes, higher-dimensional space, lower-dimensional space.
In the mission The World's Grave, your Ghost mentions that the Hive have broken something known as the Beckenstein Limit. I know I'm not the only one who had no idea what that was at first. Wikipedia defines it thus:
[quote]In physics, the Beckenstein bound is an upper limit on the entropy S, or information I, that can be contained within a given finite region of space which has a finite amount of energy—or conversely, the maximum amount of information required to perfectly describe a given physical system down to the quantum level.[/quote]
In short, the Beckenstein Limit is a hard stop, limiting the amount of information that can possible be contained in a finite region of space. Then how could the Hive have broken this limit, crammed more stuff into a finite space than should be possible?
One physics book I've been recently reading may have the answer. It talks about higher dimensional spaces, both very large and very small. Based on this, I see two explanations as to how the Hive store their info in the World's Grave.
[b]1.[/b] Tiny rolled-up dimensions. Say you took a (roughly) 2D piece of paper and started to roll it up. If you roll it up tightly enough, it will simply look like a (roughly) 1D line. Similarly, if you take a 3D coordinate grid and roll up the z-axis (height) tightly enough, it will look like a 2D plane. It could be possible that the Hive have harnessed an extremely (extremely) tiny rolled-up fourth spatial dimension to store their info. This would be rolled up so small that all of our technology would be too crude to detect it.
[b]2.[/b] A hidden higher-dimensional space. Our [i]observable[/i] universe exists in four dimensions: three of space, one of time. It's conceivable that this exists on something known as a brane. A brane is a lower-dimensional section of a higher-dimensional space, known as the bulk. Typically, particles and forces (with the exception of gravity) are confined to a brane, but it's plausible that the Hive somehow have punched through into the bulk and stored their info there.
Of course, it might be something simpler. The World's Grave might stretch across different realities, storing a bit of info here, a bit there. Or it might be just Bungie being Bungie. But I'd like to think it's something more than that.
Or it might be me overcomplicating things
-
What if ,and don´t shoot me on this one : The hive didn't break the Bekenstein Limit they just altered it . Let me explain , Jacob Bekenstein , the guy that formulated the limit ,said that the limit could be altered in the certain situations where the laws of physics cannot be applied , Black Holes . What if the Hive has found a way to control black holes , I would say by using one of the worms that gave Oryx and his sisters power beyond our imagination
-
I'd have to go with option B simply because of how no matter how minuscule a 2d shape becomes via figurative rolling , it will still be 2 dimensional if it one side is as big as a string ( string theory ) . Furthermore i feel like black holes could act as wormholes transporting matter from different dimensions since it might explain how a black hole can contain an almost infinite amount of debris such as stars ( or what remains after it's been torn apart ) as well as gaseous objects . I wonder if dark matter and energy has anything to do with it considering the amount of energy it has and how they make up 99% of the universe .
-
Interesting, I have not seen this thread before. I think the Hive's technology is simply beyond physics, so trying to explain it through physics will not yield a probable answer. The Hive tap into the Darkness for much of their power, and it is a force beyond causality. The Taken, who have been changed by the Darkness, were said to have physically illegal abilities by an advanced civilization, suggesting the laws of physics are broken.
-
I think you got it with option A. A system would have to be built in order to successfully bridge the dimensions and have them work in tandem, the problem with that is each universe has a different set of rules governing them. The other would be the device. It's molecular composition would have to be vibrating at higher frequencies in order to survive any environment. Trans-phasic in nature, the device would probably be based off some sort of quantum and/or temporal technology. The beauty of it though is being able to store vast amounts of information in different realities and call them back up. The best part is....aw hell, I have zero clue what the hell I'm talking about, just remembering stuff from TNG, Voyager, Babylon 5....
-
I think you shot past the obvious answer, but damn good work. The Hive have their Throne Realms, which are basically pocket universes. I think the Worlds Grave uses a similar kind of space for storing information in some creepy chitinous bug computer.
-
U used Wikipedia. Ur argument is invalid. [spoiler]lol jk good job[/spoiler]
-
Bruh [spoiler]good job bro, cool you did some research[/spoiler]
-
Very interesting theory. It could just be that they store some info there and they store the rest another dimension like you said. This other dimension could potentially be a hive throne room.
-
Noice
-
Did the black Hammer originally access this higher dimension to have near infinite ammo?
-
Is it as faulty as the cloud?
-
Am I actually the first person to say "it's bigger on the inside"?
-
Edited by Spectre Ronin: 11/25/2015 4:44:35 PMI like option 1. It's cool to imagine a network of circuitry composed of rolled up dimensional space tucked neatly into a spikey hive computer.
-
1 ReplyNerd! *Chuckle*
-
Hm. I like it. Good job tree.
-
26 RepliesSort of.... You're clearly drawing from Super String/M-Theory which (in order to get the math to work out that allows it to function as a "Unified Field Theory"/"Theory of Everything") requires that there be ELEVEN dimensions. Ten dimensions of space and one dimension of time. So your points address the question of "Where are the other 7 dimensions" relative to the FOUR dimensions of Space-Time that we can observe. 1 One possibility Is your first point. That they are tiny "rolled up" dimensions that exist far below the subatomic level, and thus (for now) too small for us to observe. 2. The other posibility is your second point. Which is that the dimensions are too MASSIVE to observe, because they essentially exist in the form of parallel universerses, and that our universe is but one in a system of multiple universes. This possibility is intriguing because it offers a possible explanation as to why gravity is so weak in comparison to the other fundamental forces of the universe (Electromagnetism, Strong and Weak nuclear forces). That the (theorized) particles that transmit gravititational forces are able to move BETWEEN branes (universes) while the other three forces are confined to our universe (brane). It also may explain how the Hive are able to store information/communicate in dimensions outside of our every day experience ("gravity waves"). 3. Third possibility is some combination of the two. In referencing the Beckenstein Limit what the Destiny writers were basically telling you is that the Hive are not beholden to physics (of thos universe) as we currently understand them. So that they clealry have access to dimensions (or even universes) that either are not accounted for in our current understanding of Physics.....or operate according to an entirely different set of physics. A possibility hinted in the opening story mission of TTK, when our Ghost tries to make sense of hte "inter-dimensional goo" that the Taken leave behind...and how the process of trying to take/rip from this level of Space-Time fails against a dead Cabal. That the process requires "a living host". ...and that the space being opened upon doesn't operate "by our laws of physics". Even more interesting is the "Ascendant Plane" (Brane?) However, what really opens up some mind-bending possibilities is the difference between the Hive/Taken and the Vex. Which suggest that their technologies/powers are fundamentally different. Both seemed to have mastered the ability to travel through space (supraluminal flight, teleportation)....but only the Vex seemed to have mastered frank time Travel. One possibility is that the Hive/Taken can only move from one spatial dimension to another, while The Vex can manipulate the whole Space/Time fabric. At least the primary four dimesions of our everyday experience.
-
I love physics, and also love to read articles containing complicated physics. thank you ;)
-
Bump for later. Ill be back
-
It's not rocket science. They simply used planes such as the ascendant plane to store more data. Each plane is effectively a new space thus doubling the amount that can be stored. However, even with this being game science, the true answer is that your ghost is just an idiot. A hard limit such as the Beckenstein Limit can't be broken without breaking space itself. The worlds grave would therefore have had a big rupture in space where the Hive computer should have been.
-
You lost me at warning.
-
So the hive do origami?? In that case, could this be a clue about the next raid boss? [url=http://www.giladorigami.com/origami-pandas-5]link[/url]
-
1 ReplySo me and my friends were 3 manning Crota with nightstalker and telesto, and one of my friends called his super the spooper, so we made a cleaning product. Are you tired of that thrall problem in your basement? Well, I have the solution for you. Hi billy mays here. Have I told you about our newest cleaning product, the spooper mini mop? I haven't well let me fill you in. The spooper is a portable mop that you can move easily anywhere in your house. Knights in your bathroom? Use the spooper. Hive infestation in your attic? Use the spooper. The spooper was made by the same people who brought you the sham wow and the swiffer. But the spooper is very different from the two products using sweeping, mopping, and drying technologies . If your spooper isn't doing the job right you can just switch the rechargeable battery and keep going. To order you spooper just call the number 1800-SPO-OPER. Call now and get another battery free, but only on this special tv offer for $666,420.69. Remember call 1800-SPO-OPER for your spooper and the special tv offer, but wait there's more! If you call now to get your spooper and the free battery, plus a sham wow for half the price, again 1800-SPO-OPER now.
-
Well since its based on finite space and finite energy 2 other options remain. One mutualy inclusive, the other exclusive to the hive. The inclusive one being that they have an infinate source of energy allowing for infinate data refreshing within finite space. The other one, personaly the one i go with. It that the worlds grave acts like a computer terminal linked via dimension gate to a pocket reality such as the one that the ascendant hive call home. This way what would appear to be knowlege contained in an impossible way is actualy just a catologue of all requestable information. Think of it like Hive Google. Google couldnt possible keep every website in its current form up to date and saved on their servers, so instead they keep the websites URL and then direct you to said URL upon confirmation.
-
My head hurts.
-
Well read the books of sorrow The worm akka lets oryx use a power from a different dimension, they call the deep Oryx later kills akka and controls the deep which is how he can take people, so I do.believe your rolled uo 4th dimension would be they key to answering this I googled this too and my brain immediately caught fire until I really started to read Still completely baffling to me
-
That's a neat theory that coincidentally goes perfectly with the "dimensional locks" you can scan on the 'put Crota's soul in a box' mission. The grave looks like its meant to rotate in a similar fashion.
