originally posted in:The Ashen Conflux
*A Wild Gringo has appeared*
Hello fellow Guardians, it is I, Wild Gringo and I am here to present you with some perplexing lore.
Disclaimer: A lot of the things I say are based off of this post that a friend made, https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/162284075/0/0. If you don't care to read it just know it says that the "Ravenous Heart" at the center of the Touch of Malice is Oyrx's Worm. And this: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/157667820/0/0 which basically explains that the Worms are either Ahamkara or closely related somehow.
First, let's talk about the shape of the worms, as described in IX: The Bargain.
[quote]Behold my passage. Behold my vast displacement, my ponderous strength, my great and coiling length, my folded jaws and curled wings. Behold the hiving cities symbiotic with my flesh. I am fecund, Aurash. I am at the beginning and end of lives.[/quote]
Don't you find it a tad bit strange? They are called worms, you generally think of a snakelike appearance, no arms. No legs. Just a long body and mouth. But these have wings. Why are they called Worms and not Dragons? Wouldn't that make more sence?
Well it is generally considered that the Worms are Ahamkara or somehow closely related to them (this sums that up pretty well https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/157667820/0/0), and that the word, Worm, is actually a mistranslation of Wyrm, a word synonymous with Dragon.
But that link I put above says that the Ravenous Heart in the ToM (http://imgur.com/uBFEosf) is a Worm? Well there might be two possibilities to that:
1- The Worm's larve appear as that black, for less shape. They only turn into the fully grown Worm/ Ahamkara shape when they have consumed enligh or just grow enough. Which takes a lot.
2- The black liquid stuff is the "soul" of the Worms. Just like we aren't made of light but somehow we still are capable of producing physical light. They are the same but with Darkness. And when we die, our light seems to be a physical thing (see "Luminous Web" artifact).
Well that's good and all, but what does this have to do with the Black Garden's Heart? Well take a good look at these? http://imgur.com/a/5aeOT
They look just too similar. They are both floating orbs of chaoticly flowing black liquid.
You know where I am going with this... Is the Black Heart a worm?
To help further explain how this could be possible, here is a quote from XXXIX open your eye : go into it
[quote]Quria captured some worm larvae and began experimenting with them. Soon Quria, Blade Transform manifested religious tactics. By directing worship at the worms, Quria learned it could alter reality with mild ontopathogenic effects. Being an efficient machine, Quria manufactured a priesthood and ordered all its subminds to believe in worship.[/quote]
Something starting to click? No? Well here's another, from Sol Divisive
[quote]Beyond the towering Meridian Bay gate lies the Black Garden, adrift in time and space. And within the Garden dwell the Vex of the Sol Divisive, frozen in rapture.
We have precious little insight into the Divisive's behavior. They seem central to Vex actions in the solar system: the Garden is clearly a place of enormous power.
Legends and scant field reports all indicate that the Divisive Vex behave religiously. Why would a hyperintelligent, time-spanning thought mesh exhibit religious behavior? The answer seems as obvious as it is chilling: if the Vex found worship and devotion more effective than any other behavior, they would adopt worship. Whatever the Vex found - or made - in the Garden, it transcends even their power.[/quote]
So let's sum those 2 up. The Vex created a machine, named Quria, Sword Transform. Quria was tasked with finding out Oyrx's secrets and destroying him. It got into his Throne World and captured some Worm Larve. It then commanded its sub minds to worship the larve to learn their secrets.
The Sol Divisive reside in the Black Garden. They are tasked with worshiping the Black Heart.
If these similarities aren't enough to convince you, I don't know what will.
Quria took the Worm larve, and that larve grew into what we call the Black Heart.
But what does this mean to us?
Well first off, and more obviously, it shows just why the Exo Stranger was so insistant on having us kill the Heart. What if the Vex found out how to wield its power? Nothing would stand a chance. But we stopped that. It isn't a problem any more.
The second, and much more ominous link is... The Cabal. What if the Worm is the reason they are so interested in the Vex. What if they could wield the power of the Worms? The Cabal empire is gigantic. The forces we encountered are only a small fraction of those who exist. A small scouting force. If the Cabal wanted, they could send a real invasion here and blow up the whole system. When they attacked the Dreadnaught, Oyrx was an afterthought, as shown in Cabal 4 (keep in mind "Dead Persons" are the cabal translations for our Ghosts)
[quote]Flayer analysis suggests that the Hive have developed unconventional counter-Dead Person capability. The capture of Hive leadership might yield vital strategic intelligence, including weapons or tactics capable of defeating Guardians permanently.
We advance that the Hive fleet group near Saturn presents a strong target.[/quote]
The Cabal are gigantic, they thought of Oyrx's Throne World as just another Hive fleet. Their scouting fleet capable of taking on the Vex. Imagine how powerful they are, and how much more they would be if they could wield the power of the Worms.
This is a very real threat. We know that the Garden is attached to the surface of Mars. Anybody can walk in or out as they please. We also know the Black Heart is capible of being brought back, as The Undying Mind failed at.
If the Heart is revived, the Cabal could waltz in and take it for their own.
Keep your eyes keen, Guardians. This is just the begining.
[i]See you starside, Guardians![/i]
It's Ashen Day! Today and every 11th of the month, we have a day of the month to spread lore posts all over the forums! Check the tag #Ashen for today's many theories.
Edit: A am being told of a patrol mission on Mars called "Multiple Hosts" where you kill Psions and take something called "symbiotes" from them. They apparently look a lot like the Ravenous Heart/ Worm larve but I can't find a pic anywhere so I can't tell. It might be a sign of Cabal experimenting with the darkness but I haven't a clue.
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Dude ur mum
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This can also link to Crota opening a vex timegate when he cut himself.
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The touch of malice drains my health to, so I'm not to sure.
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The cabal are trying to find more effective ways of killing us. The empire is coming, they will send a invasion unlike no other. They kill hive fleets for sport. The ones we faced were only Scouts imagine a full on fleet. Or even worse the emperor himself coming to our solar system.
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Love this post. I have a strong feeling that Quria and the black heart have a connection. I feel maybe the black heart is whatever's left of Quria.
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I shoot the worms on the dreadnaught whenever I see them. Hasn't done shit yet, but I'm not giving up.
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I think this may coincide with your theory on the black heart. The Warlock bond, Worm Gods' Boon, states "... They chose The Formless One. They chose The Worm Gods." Or something along those lines.
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What if the goo itself isn't a worm, but the essence of one? Also what do you make of the patrol beacons where you have to race through the energy signatures coming up from the ground?
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I think you put more thought into this than the developers did in the story. I think you're filling in holes that the story writers never thought about filling.
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Cool story bro
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Dude... You literally have people saying this "The Wyrms are not Ahamkara" and then they follow it with "Read the Lore" This is why Donald Trump is going to be president.
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That patrol asks you to collect scalpel leeches. These are the Sam thing you collect from I think knights on the moon in a similar collection patrol
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The Ahamkara were under the spell of the worms, the same way Oryx is/was. The worms promise great power in exchange for doing their bidding. Oryx himself, in the book of sorrow, comments about how he doesn't like the dragons worshipping the same gods aka the worms. The worms are not all the same, they have some form of individuality. The Ahamkara and their symbiosis with the worms reacted different than Oryx did. Bottom line: The Ahamkara found the Worms. The Hive found the Worms. The Hive and the Ahamkara benefited from the power of the darkness through the worms. Guardians benefit from the power of light through the traveler and his Ghosts.
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Bump fpr later plz
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I hope this is real
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THE DRAGONS. Our gods should be ours alone. Their smug freedom is an insult to me. I'd shut them all in cages. Bring them to me. Worms are ahamkara. Check mate
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[spoiler]So let's sum those 2 up. The Vex created a machine, named Quria, Sword Transform. Quria was tasked with finding out Oyrx's secrets and destroying him. It got into his Throne World and captured some Worm Larve. It then commanded its sub minds to worship the larve to learn their secrets.[/spoiler] Ooh! Good connection. It's been so long since I've been into the Black Garden that I'd totally forgotten about its Heart. It makes perfect sense, the Sol divisive protecting the Heart appear to be incredibly old, and the Books of Sorrow explain that the capture of the Larvae took place some thousands of years ago. Overall I think the theory is solid, except for the part about the Ahamkara. While Akka may have "great and coiling length ... folded jaws and curled wings." it does not make him an Ahamkara. If you remember, Oryx simply [b]decided[/b] to grow wings one day. I imagine, with the seemingly unlimited power granted by The Deep (The one who fuels the Worm Gods and their Larvae) Host species would have the ability to transform their shapes at will.
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Put the pipe down... I repeat put the pipe down
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I'm sorry but I couldn't read any further after *A wild gringo has appeared* lol..
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I -blam!-ing love reading this stuff.
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Agreed. I concluded near the end of September that the Wyrms=Amakara and that they manifested in the Garden and produced the ritualistic and religious practices of Vex. I read somewhere that the Vex worship what they don't understand, and it seems that Amakara (pure darkness) is beyond comprehension to them. If this points to anything, it's that the best theory about the Darkness is that it's origin is the Amakara, and they manifest within a species and use them to carry out their bidding. So when it says the Darkness was following the Traveler across the Universe, it meant the Hive lead by Oryx, who was in turn lead by the Wyrms. [spoiler]Love that Worm and Wyrm connection you made, very insightful. [/spoiler]
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Bump for later plz
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"[i]Behold my passage. Behold my vast displacement, my ponderous strength, my great and coiling length, my folded jaws and curled wings. Behold the hiving cities symbiotic with my flesh. I am fecund, Aurash. I am at the beginning and end of lives."[/i] Aurash is Oryx before the worm... OP misinterpreted the book of sorrow
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