Did Bungie make PayDay 2. No

Oh really? I had [i]no idea.[/i] Doesn't exactly matter who made it. The point is that devs can [i][b]lie[/b][/i].

But that's like saying that just because someone has lied before, everyone else is probably lying. No. Only a few select people are lying. In this instance only one dev team was lying. Yes, Bungie could be lying but when has Bungie lied before? What is their track record that proves they could be lying

[quote]But that's like saying that just because someone has lied before, everyone else is probably lying. No. Only a few select people are lying. In this instance only one dev team was lying.[/quote] No what I said was just because they said they never will doesn't mean they won't. It means they are capable of lying even if they say they won't. Meaning just because they [i]said[/i] they won't be pay to win doesn't mean they [i]wont[/i]. [quote]Yes, Bungie could be lying but when has Bungie lied before? What is their track record that proves they could be lying[/quote] Here you go "In the months to come, your quest to become more powerful will have more avenues that lead to satisfaction. The last thing we wanted was for you to look at your favorite gun or helmet and decide that it had become obsolete. Since the reveal, we’ve read a lot of ideas for how this could have been done better. Your feedback is clear: The time you have invested in your stuff should be respected." - DeeJ

So you see they are learning from mistakes. Which is what Bungie does. This is the first game of its type! There's going to be unexpected problems and they are going to experiment with in game features because they don't know what will and what won't work. In Destiny 2, whenever that comes out(I forget the exact timeline for it), they will know how to make a whole, complete game. They will learn from their mistakes. They've done that in the past so you know they can and will do it in the future. (Just like with the lying- they haven't lied in the past, so why expect them to lie now or in the future??)

[quote]So you see they are learning from mistakes.[/quote] No they don't. They nerfed every year one weapon. That is [i][b]not[/b][/i] a respect of time. Did you join the forums yesterday? [quote]Which is what Bungie does. This is the first game of its type! There's going to be unexpected problems and they are going to experiment with in game features because they don't know what will and what won't work. In Destiny 2, whenever that comes out(I forget the exact timeline for it), they will know how to make a whole, complete game. They will learn from their mistakes. They've done that in the past so you know they can and will do it in the future.[/quote] THIS ISN'T THE FIRST GAME THEY'VE MADE. Just because it's a unique game, like most games on the market, doesn't mean the developer becomes 100% incompetent and forgets how to make a game (although I could argue Bungie has no idea what they're doing not because they don't know how to make a game but because they have a shitty contract with Activision whom limits their abilities). Bungie knows how to make games, and to say that oh it's the first game of its type Bungie is confused is a fallacy because [b][i]bungie knows how to make games.[/i][/b] [quote](Just like with the lying- they haven't lied in the past, so why expect them to lie now or in the future??)[/quote] I literally just gave you a quote [i]proving[/i] that they lied. I am not the only one who used that quote to prove they lied. I expect them to lie because that's what they've done, what they continue to do, and what they will do.

Bro you need to calm down. Truth is, they are learning. So what if they nerfed year one weapons? You knowntheyre right when they say we wouldve used those rather than new weapons. Theyre actually listening to the community now. And yes, theyve made plenty of games, just not like this one. This is a learning experience of some sorts. Give them time.

[quote]Bro you need to calm down. Truth is, they are learning. So what if they nerfed year one weapons? You knowntheyre right when they say we wouldve used those rather than new weapons. Theyre actually listening to the community now.[/quote] I am calm. My calmness allowed me to respond in a well constructed manner. I've already explained why it's bad that they nerfed the weapons. No they're not right actually. In HoW people used both new AND old weapons when weapon Ascension was allowed. You may think they're listening but really they're not. [quote]And yes, theyve made plenty of games, just not like this one. This is a learning experience of some sorts. Give them time.[/quote] This is a fallacious excuse for their inability to balance this game. They've designed plenty of games. Excusing them from it because "it's the first of its kind" is a horrible argument that holds no weight or bearing.

Oh well. Its clear neither of our stances are going to change.

Well it's obvious you just hate everything about Destiny and Bungie so there's no point in discussing this with you any longer. Any optimistic person would see that they haven't lied and that they an only do so much to satisfy everyone