Bungie... Its time to cut the crap.
By now you are already fully aware of this article that has been picking up speed circulating around the community: http://kotaku.com/the-messy-true-story-behind-the-making-of-destiny-1737556731
The article itself validates everything that people have been saying for quite sometime, since the very start of this. It is definitive fact at this point, it can no longer be dismissed as just some theory. Choosing to further ignore it is only going to allow the flames to continue spreading. [b]Your lack of communication has been the most damaging to the game.[/b] You either ignore most feedback posts or you toss a random comment in which is basically the same thing each time. That isn't communication. That's placating.
You need to [u][b]"converse"[/b][/u] with us. You need to [u][b]"involve"[/b][/u] the community more when it comes to this game. HONESTY is the best policy. YOU should have made us aware of these things yourself. Instead, you let everyone speculate on their own and do their own investigations...allow the players to fight each other and argue among themselves.
That doesn't help you at all. All that does is create a VERY volatile situation and a tense atmosphere which grows thick with bitterness and anger.
Whatever your reasons are for picking and choosing who you respond to and why the vast majority of feedback posts get ignored, you can't just ignore these things. You can't allow tempers to flare and continue burning. Its not going to just fizzle out. These issues and subjects aren't going to just fade away. People are going to remember. People are going to keep bringing these problems up, regardless of whether or not they are a Year 1 or Year 2 player.
Look. Myself and many others have already invested $100 into this game. You NEED to acknowledge this. We already know Activision sets the pricing for this game. That's not something you can control. We get that. But what you CAN control is the game content itself and what the players can get.
You NEED to make amends for this.
I haven't bought TTK. For a number of reasons. However, of those reasons, there are two which stand out the most that are the only real roadblocks keeping me from continuing onward.
[b]1:[/b] I'm still waiting for my $100 investment to match the value. When the expansion was released, I honestly expected to see a slew of new things added to the game that Year 1 players would have instant access to without having to spend more money. Its compensation. You know, the Ghost Scanning that encouraged exploration in TTK? I thought that would show up in the Year 1 content. I thought that was something you were doing for the game on the whole that [b]EVERYONE[/b] could enjoy. I thought everyone was going to be able to hit level 40 and earn Legendary Marks and buy the new vendor gear [b]WITHOUT[/b] having to purchase TTK.
Hell, I at least expected that VIP black Shader, Emblem and Sparrow were going to be given to everyone for free, at the very least. And that is the root of the problem. You are wanting money for everything. You aren't giving back enough to the community for them having supported you and your game.
The end result? Feelings of betrayal.
[b]2:[/b] Lack of Reason. I can't justify spending hours upon hours doing the same activity over and over again with this game anymore at this point. I did that in Year 1. I farmed the Vault of Glass. I did the Nightfall as often as I could. I did Prison of Elders and battled with the nonsense that is LFG sites. Why? What was all that for?
I didn't spend all that time because I had nothing else better to do. There were plenty of things I could have done with my time. I chose to go through all that hassle (because it was a hassle for me) to get specific Legendary/Exotic Weapons and Armor. I didn't even hunt for these things, I spammed for them because everything is at the mercy of an RNG Loot System which drove me crazy. And then when all was said and done, TTK comes out and you tell me that I can't continue upgrading any of that stuff. Hundreds of hours flushed down the toilet, dude.
I didn't do all that work so that I could keep redoing the same content over and over until the end times. And I personally find it insulting when you say things like "well you can at least keep those weapons and use them from time to time in VOG" or whatever. [b]Not everyone went out and got a Fatebringer to have some glorified trophy. If you were to put out a new Arc Damage Hand Cannon with better stats or new perks that caught my interest more, I would replace it in a heartbeat. I care more about function, performance and reliability in my guns when it comes to Shooters. However, I want to be the one to make that decision on whether or not a gun is replaced, not have that choice forced on me just so I can maintain the highest possible numbers. (Damage and Defense, basically the Light Level)[/b]
If I can't bring all of my old weapons and armor forward with me and keep that Year 1 content relevant? Then what's the point of putting anymore time into the game? I don't grind for the sake of grinding. I grind because I'm working towards a goal. But when you kill the value of that goal, then it loses all meaning or sense of accomplishment. THAT is why so many feel as though Year 1 was a total waste of time, effort and money. We have literally nothing to show for all that hard work.
Whatever the reasons are, the fact remains that the players have been made to shoulder the weight of Bungie's decisions. Example:
[quote]According to one source, Jones also told the team that he wanted a less linear story—one in which the player could decide where to go at any time. That became one of Destiny’s key pillars.[/quote]
The game is still linear only with no actual story. Having a linear story is [b]PERFECTLY FINE SO LONG AS IT IS A GOOD STORY.[/b]
Its been a total and complete failure. The Iron Bar was not successful. And you can't say things like "well everyone will have to judge it for themselves" because that is called passing the buck. That is called not taking accountability. Just like when people come on here to tell others "if you don't like it don't buy it and leave" crap. It shouldn't be about that. You should be trying to work towards creating a product that resolves these conflicts and answers those questions and concerns.
Now we know that TTK Expansion is nothing but more of the same cut content from Year 1. That Dreadnought was taken out and reused for Year 2.
Destiny and this community deserves more. MUCH more.
And YOU need to start being far more open with us about things. Again, we shouldn't have to hear about shit a year later from some third party conducting their own private investigations. Its wrong. It shows what little faith and trust you have in your community that you think people wouldn't still support you or this game if you weren't just upfront and being honest about things. Instead, you end up hiding it which only leaves room to breed doubt and negativity. At this point? People feel as though they can't trust you anymore because they feel as though you've been taking advantage of them. And you really have been.
Its time to start making things right with us.
[b]EDIT: For those looking for Cozmo's reply it can be found here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/164918275/0/0
Credit goes to BSteeleCC for making the suggestion to include the link in the post itself.[/b]
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I agree but remember that video you posted on how silence and attrition will win. I fear they won't say anything and hope it blows over so they can get back to doing more shady crap.
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Bump.
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Cannot agree enough about Jones not wanting a linear story, and yet we still got a linear non-story. Way to completely -blam!- up the entire vision of the game and still fail, dumb-dumbs.
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Get a life kid your expectations are ridiculous bungie is a company with real life employees with real life things to do get over it lord forbid if they don't communicate with you geeeezzzzzz
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Bump.
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I applaud you for this article, but I will be a cynic here, and state what probably a few people have already said here: BungLe™ doesn't care a whit for us, their consumer base, the people that signs their paychecks. They have our money, so they say to us "Screw all of you stupid players" through their actions; from nerfs, to the RNG within RNG within RNG within RNG on nearly everything in the game, to their practice of nerfing a skill that might be considered OP, but forcing us to wait sometimes months to see a badly needed fix to a literally game-breaking bug or set of bugs (Crota, anyone?). I've said it before, and I will say it again: Never again, BungLe™. Never, EVER again.
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Well written as usual
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Edited by SpillingShorts: 10/21/2015 12:41:27 AMThe lack of communication and nonexistent involvement from Bungie to the community is what irks me. We're the players, one could argue that we know the game world better than the creators. They need to involve the real community, not the YouTube community that's just doing it for "smash that like button and subscribe" or the Destiny subreddit. Let us, the community play test updates so we can show them what's really going on. We've already proven that we are better than their QA/testing team. I feel like they're just running through to make sure everything is playable and calling it good. The only reason I picked up TTK was to play with my friends. I've played with them maybe 4 times since the release of TTK because the raid grind is almost on par with the vault of glass grind when it first released. I want Destiny to succeed, but we all know it'll be a long road before we see that.
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Edited by hanno07: 10/21/2015 10:09:33 PMI always half agree with Mal and half disagree with him. Strongly agree and strongly disagree usually too. I agree that Bungie should communicate better with its fans but I disagree that they "need" to. Regarding the Kotaku article, I am sure a lot of people were upset to learn that the story was cut/pasted from the shreds of a different story but me personally and others as well I'm sure, probably couldn't care less. Not everyone who picked this game up did so for an epic story. I personally prefer less story to more story but hey that's just me. And I believe that is why Bungie didn't feel the need to "involve" or "converse" with us about it. Not everyone cares and they weren't sure if enough people cared to warrant a discussion over it. Perhaps they are wrong on that account but still, my point is a valid one. Should Bungie listen to its players more? Yes and no I'd say. I believe they hear us. They hear all of our complaints but that doesn't mean they are or even should listen to us. Just because the majority of people agree with something doesn't make that something a good idea. I truly believe that allowing a 100% year one infusion would kill this game. I am probably in the minority and I maybe wrong but Bungie apparently agrees with me. What "everyone" wants is not always beneficial. Was our time being respected? Do amends need to be made? Mal thinks that the grind wasn't worth it in year one and wonders what was the point of collecting legendary and exotics from year one. Now this is something that I can't understand. My answer would be, we did all that because it was fun, why else would we do it? Why would a person in their free time, use hard earned money to buy a game and then proceed to do things in that game that are a "hassle"? I can't comprehend that. Is there not enough hassle in your real life that you need to voluntarily accept more hassle into your free time as well? My opinion would be that either there was some enjoyment to that grind or you are a masochist. Now, I understand that Malphisto is not alone in that behavior and that many gamers spend hours doing things they absolutely do not enjoy in a game but again, we aren't all like that. I took one look at the Thorn bounty for example and said, nope not for me and deleted the bounty and never looked back. I honestly cannot understand why people insist on doing things they hate in a game. So as such I really can't comment further on that point. In conclusion, Bungie is going to continue to ignore advice that they do not agree with so long as Destiny is a successful game and Destiny currently is a successful game. Bungie does not want to upset the apple cart too much on what is to them a working formula. Mal might disagree that the formula works but as far as Bungie is concerned, if it sells it works. Mal says he won't buy TK until its worth the price tag but he has played TK. I remember seeing a review he wrote on it. He may not have actually been they guy who bought that copy of TK but someone did buy it. And as long as Destiny and the Taken King continue to sell then most complaints here will likely be ignored. Does that mean all complaints here should be ignored? I don't think they should. However, in business a "if it ain't broke dont fix it" approach is usually a wise one.
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Bump. F**k Bungievision.
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O good i found the blind rage hater page glad they put character limits on these posts.
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Sounds like you need to convince your mom to buy you TTK, put away your damn Thorn/Fellwinter, and enjoy the new content. Yeah, there are some things that aren't perfect right now but there has has also been an update every week since TTK launched. If anything the article shed some light as to why we have been frustrated by highlighting their resource and time constraints -They are only human and do not poses actual sword logic time travel - they maybe drive a Jetta to work... You are never going to get 100% transparency and you probably shouldn't know every ingredient to their secret sauce - when/if you get a girlfriend I would not suggest telling her she looks like a fat slob out of the the principle of transparency - this won't get you laid and the only thing you will be spamming is opening new tabs on your fav spank tube site. Lastly, your expectations are out of this world, if there was a game that met them I would def not be interested in playing it (and it would be on Wii U). If you are this upset and have such Ill Will ( Pun Intended) by a video game then you should probably just move along - I definitely won't miss you as much as you miss your damn fatebringer.
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Where's the bungie reply?
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Dude boo hoo... Just an essay of "I want free stuff".
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Edited by MOAB23: 10/21/2015 12:33:07 AMBump. Bungie need to do a serious overhaul of how they interact with us, and what they produce. If you're gonna slap a price tag on it, make it reasonable (and adhere to the -blam!-ing exchange rates) and actually worth the price. Minor things (cosmetics) should be free of charge or pennies. Level caps should be raised for everyone, and playlists available to those without DLC, multiple difficulty choices included. In fact, the only thing DLC should lock non-DLC players out of is actual DLC specific content: missions, PVP maps, exotic weapons and exotic armours and DLC shaders. Everything else should remain open. If they're going to create an entirely new set of weapons and vendor gear, it should be available to everyone, otherwise they're just alienating people. It's puts too much emphasis on elitism. Unless people can level up and use weapons that are actually worthwhile, everything becomes utterly pointless. They've been proven as liars in many areas. This article only justifies what many of us have said, which Bungie has denied repeatedly. Barefaced lying is particularly egregious when money is involved, and you are using those lies to rope people into purchasing. If Bungie wants this game to continue, they need to start treating the player base with respect, taking harsh criticism instead of picking and choosing the easy issues to rectify (which they also frequently bugged up), and start pumping out content to shore up their unfinished product so that it actually meets the original price tag. And FFS, Bungie, write up a damn plan instead of winging it all the time.
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When Destiny is one of the most popular games of all time. I don't think they are worried about a few people hating it or leaving. I don't see anything in this post but rage and a lack of understanding an mmo archetype.... Movie ticket = 10 bucks for 3 hours. 140 bucks would equal 45 hours of entertainment. 140 bucks for Destiny has netted you 600 hours of entertainment(for me 1100 and I'm enjoying TTK). Why is it so hard for people to either play or leave....
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I am waiting for my $100 to match value, too. But, Bungie and Destiny is going down very fast. #bumpforturth
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Suggested Edit: You ONLY spent $100 on the hours and hours you spent playing. Sounds like more value for money than your average game to me. I would love more Y1 players like yourself to continue playing but if you don't agree with the changes then don't play anymore. I'll be sorry to see you go but it sounds like that's what you really want to do. Maybe invest the time you would spend playing into the game your developing and in a few years perhaps you'll have built the exact game you want to play. If that's the case then I'd love to play it as well.
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Bump a billion fold
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Edited by GreyPooponya: 10/21/2015 12:27:53 AMIt's basically what I thought all along. Well, they sure did make it non-linear...well who knows what it is or whatever -blam!-
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Even if Bungie wanted to add more content, Activision has every right to force its cut and save it for a DLC. That's how their partnership works.
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Thanks for the post! I was just waiting until you made one for this. And, you didn't happen to make one on the micro transactions, did you?
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BUUMMMMMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Why are you still on the forums for a game you don't play???