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#feedback

Edited by Malphisto: 10/22/2015 7:09:15 AM
249

THE IRON BAR...

Bungie... Its time to cut the crap. By now you are already fully aware of this article that has been picking up speed circulating around the community: http://kotaku.com/the-messy-true-story-behind-the-making-of-destiny-1737556731 The article itself validates everything that people have been saying for quite sometime, since the very start of this. It is definitive fact at this point, it can no longer be dismissed as just some theory. Choosing to further ignore it is only going to allow the flames to continue spreading. [b]Your lack of communication has been the most damaging to the game.[/b] You either ignore most feedback posts or you toss a random comment in which is basically the same thing each time. That isn't communication. That's placating. You need to [u][b]"converse"[/b][/u] with us. You need to [u][b]"involve"[/b][/u] the community more when it comes to this game. HONESTY is the best policy. YOU should have made us aware of these things yourself. Instead, you let everyone speculate on their own and do their own investigations...allow the players to fight each other and argue among themselves. That doesn't help you at all. All that does is create a VERY volatile situation and a tense atmosphere which grows thick with bitterness and anger. Whatever your reasons are for picking and choosing who you respond to and why the vast majority of feedback posts get ignored, you can't just ignore these things. You can't allow tempers to flare and continue burning. Its not going to just fizzle out. These issues and subjects aren't going to just fade away. People are going to remember. People are going to keep bringing these problems up, regardless of whether or not they are a Year 1 or Year 2 player. Look. Myself and many others have already invested $100 into this game. You NEED to acknowledge this. We already know Activision sets the pricing for this game. That's not something you can control. We get that. But what you CAN control is the game content itself and what the players can get. You NEED to make amends for this. I haven't bought TTK. For a number of reasons. However, of those reasons, there are two which stand out the most that are the only real roadblocks keeping me from continuing onward. [b]1:[/b] I'm still waiting for my $100 investment to match the value. When the expansion was released, I honestly expected to see a slew of new things added to the game that Year 1 players would have instant access to without having to spend more money. Its compensation. You know, the Ghost Scanning that encouraged exploration in TTK? I thought that would show up in the Year 1 content. I thought that was something you were doing for the game on the whole that [b]EVERYONE[/b] could enjoy. I thought everyone was going to be able to hit level 40 and earn Legendary Marks and buy the new vendor gear [b]WITHOUT[/b] having to purchase TTK. Hell, I at least expected that VIP black Shader, Emblem and Sparrow were going to be given to everyone for free, at the very least. And that is the root of the problem. You are wanting money for everything. You aren't giving back enough to the community for them having supported you and your game. The end result? Feelings of betrayal. [b]2:[/b] Lack of Reason. I can't justify spending hours upon hours doing the same activity over and over again with this game anymore at this point. I did that in Year 1. I farmed the Vault of Glass. I did the Nightfall as often as I could. I did Prison of Elders and battled with the nonsense that is LFG sites. Why? What was all that for? I didn't spend all that time because I had nothing else better to do. There were plenty of things I could have done with my time. I chose to go through all that hassle (because it was a hassle for me) to get specific Legendary/Exotic Weapons and Armor. I didn't even hunt for these things, I spammed for them because everything is at the mercy of an RNG Loot System which drove me crazy. And then when all was said and done, TTK comes out and you tell me that I can't continue upgrading any of that stuff. Hundreds of hours flushed down the toilet, dude. I didn't do all that work so that I could keep redoing the same content over and over until the end times. And I personally find it insulting when you say things like "well you can at least keep those weapons and use them from time to time in VOG" or whatever. [b]Not everyone went out and got a Fatebringer to have some glorified trophy. If you were to put out a new Arc Damage Hand Cannon with better stats or new perks that caught my interest more, I would replace it in a heartbeat. I care more about function, performance and reliability in my guns when it comes to Shooters. However, I want to be the one to make that decision on whether or not a gun is replaced, not have that choice forced on me just so I can maintain the highest possible numbers. (Damage and Defense, basically the Light Level)[/b] If I can't bring all of my old weapons and armor forward with me and keep that Year 1 content relevant? Then what's the point of putting anymore time into the game? I don't grind for the sake of grinding. I grind because I'm working towards a goal. But when you kill the value of that goal, then it loses all meaning or sense of accomplishment. THAT is why so many feel as though Year 1 was a total waste of time, effort and money. We have literally nothing to show for all that hard work. Whatever the reasons are, the fact remains that the players have been made to shoulder the weight of Bungie's decisions. Example: [quote]According to one source, Jones also told the team that he wanted a less linear story—one in which the player could decide where to go at any time. That became one of Destiny’s key pillars.[/quote] The game is still linear only with no actual story. Having a linear story is [b]PERFECTLY FINE SO LONG AS IT IS A GOOD STORY.[/b] Its been a total and complete failure. The Iron Bar was not successful. And you can't say things like "well everyone will have to judge it for themselves" because that is called passing the buck. That is called not taking accountability. Just like when people come on here to tell others "if you don't like it don't buy it and leave" crap. It shouldn't be about that. You should be trying to work towards creating a product that resolves these conflicts and answers those questions and concerns. Now we know that TTK Expansion is nothing but more of the same cut content from Year 1. That Dreadnought was taken out and reused for Year 2. Destiny and this community deserves more. MUCH more. And YOU need to start being far more open with us about things. Again, we shouldn't have to hear about shit a year later from some third party conducting their own private investigations. Its wrong. It shows what little faith and trust you have in your community that you think people wouldn't still support you or this game if you weren't just upfront and being honest about things. Instead, you end up hiding it which only leaves room to breed doubt and negativity. At this point? People feel as though they can't trust you anymore because they feel as though you've been taking advantage of them. And you really have been. Its time to start making things right with us. [b]EDIT: For those looking for Cozmo's reply it can be found here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/164918275/0/0 Credit goes to BSteeleCC for making the suggestion to include the link in the post itself.[/b]

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  • Bump For Truth

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  • 6
    I cannot believe that in the article it says that the team was proud of what they put out. I really, really wanted them to be wounded deeply by having to butcher their baby and stitch it back together in mere weeks just so they could get something out the door. I could not imagine them being so much as okay with that. But I guess it's true. It wasn't really Activision in the end. Bungie has their own suits calling the shots and in the end it was always about money for them. There's no room for the ones with a creative vision there anymore, and they've all been removed anyway. I don't think I can ever buy something from Bungie again. They really were my favorite developers and I always dreamed of what they could do when they left Microsoft. I'm -blam!-ing heartbroken.

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    • BUMP

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    • Bumpin it everyday

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    • Sadly, nothing is going to change. In the Game Informer video they openly admit to poor communications with their fans, yet we continue to get the same shabby treatment. As long as people willingly throw money at the screen why should they change?

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      • Edited by HolyTrollin: 10/21/2015 2:30:45 PM
        I'm glad that a journalist finally had the intestinal fortitude to publish this type of article. One of my favorite lines regarding Destiny's reboot: [b]"...written without writers."[/b] Truly this sums up the horrific lack of story in a game that was advertised as story-driven. Joe's team was essentially locked out of the development process during the reboot. Even more Machiavellian is that they were [b]completely okay with bathing in the sea of preorders that were based on expectations built upon Bungie's representations of what the final product would be; which were based on Joe's version of the game. [/b] That they made such glaring changes without informing their customers is just fraudulent. So what if they never "intended" to chop up the original version for gross DLC profit. They did [b]just that.[/b]. I feel no sympathy for a company that managed to turn a $60 franchise entry into a $140 albatross. The issues they face are self-inflicted; yet they've done nothing to make things right with the players. I too thought that Patch 2.0 and TTK were going to right the wrongs of the launch game's woes, only to find out that they were nothing more than functioning ransomeware. All I see from Bungie is a willingness to make us pay for [i][b]their[/b][/i] mistakes.

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        • I agree about communication could have alleviated most of the issues between fans and company. And I don't mean the snarky customer bashing that has become the calling card of DeeJ and Cosmo. I love how the article describes the surprise at which Bungie received the Metacritic score - when they DO interact with us, it's with the contempt of a cocky developer that just developed a 99% Metacritic score and could afford the "love it or leave it" attitude. At 76%, you would think there would be some bridges to mend. Apparently not so. I like confidence as much as the next guy, but arrogance is another matter...

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        • BDobbins was right all along . . . Angry Joe knew aswell . . . All those desticles that defend bungie, how low are you willing to step now your precious developer got exposed. still sad to think sometime in 2013 the game was actually good, complete with story and lore in game. hopefully Joe kept a copy, i want to see the original version so bad.

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          • What I think this article does best is show us that there was a definitive disagreement in the vision of what Destiny should be between the actual Bungie development team and the Bungie management. Managements requirement to push a game out with multiple DLC a year, after telling their team the whole game was shit and had to be remade was a recipe for disaster. Bungie's management seems to be the most at blame for what the vanilla destiny release and then subsequent releases became. Development basically got put into the hands of business managers rather than creative managers... Hence the Iron Bar. Now activision still has a role in this with their mandated release cycles and schedules... But it looks like it all started with bungie management. This is supported by the details of the huge discord between Marty (mainly developer) and Harold Ryan. Activision is still a slave driver, but I think we can all take away from this that Bungie's top management were the rotten ones that derailed Destiny and left it in the still broken but recovering state that it's in. Activision' release schedule makes it profitable for them to sale back all the cuts... Which is bullshit... Because the schedule requirements themselves are why nothing is worth it's cost in this game. Anyone else agree?

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            • Edited by DarthV0ider: 10/21/2015 7:06:43 PM
              Wow. Take whatever you want from Malphisto's commentary, but those are some serious, alleged revelations in the Kotaku article. While nothing has been proven, the Kotaku article certainly makes sense as an explanation as to why Destiny felt so thin, cobbled together, and repetitive. Back when my fireteam was into Destiny, we all were shocked at how little end game content there was. VoG was awesome, but despite that, and despite us willingly riding the RNG loot treadmill, we often commented at what Destiny needed. We were surprised there was no "high level guardian only zone", because other than farming bounties or materials, there was no need for raid ready guardians to ever set foot in the standard patrol areas. Now, with TTK, we have that zone, but if the allegation that it is cut content is true, well, needless to say I can't quit Destiny twice. The main problem with Destiny is that it is too reliant on grinding. So much of the game mechanics are built around repetition, yet there is relatively little content to support that type of gameplay. In Diablo, for example, certain levels are randomly generated to alleviate the repetition. This is not the case with Destiny. Until Bungie threw in the Taken variations in strikes, pretty much every playthrough of a strike went the exact same way, and the only variety to be had was which guns and subclass you equipped. This was the reason I stopped playing Destiny when TTK dropped. Too much of the game is recycled and reused content, and I think we finally know why. From reskinned weapons and armor to running strikes backwards and calling it a new mission, I had had enough of the repetition. At least now I have a possible, rational explanation as to why this potentially 10/10 game rightfully received a 7.5/10. Watch Gamespot's original review of Destiny. A year later, it is still the best summary of what is right and what is wrong with Destiny.

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            • If you want Bungie to hear your voice, you need to take to Twitter... Why would they check their own forums, on their own website... That's just crazy talk.

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              • Did you really post a specific link to cozmo saying 'you should really keep it civil'? wtf was the point of that... You have wasted my time and lost all credit for your entire post.

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                • If they went around saying there engine is not finished and most concepts seen in 2013 were not going to be in the final game I would expect people not buying the game. They might have bought it, but would price it lower than a full game. If the original content was shown it would not have seemed as a big enough game as it is now. Destiny 2 is where they get to put that story into the game and make things in the 2013 trailer happen.

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                • This isn't new news!!! Now shhhh go to another forum

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                  • Iron Bar ... it's kind of like Iron Chef - but with WAY less creativity, and a feck-load more dickery. The [i]secret ingredient[/i] was BS. And the "Blacksmiths" were apparently there on turd-polishing duty. Heh ... I said 'duty'. In a turd polishing joke, no less.

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                    • "I'm still waiting for my $100 investment to match the value." Looks like you have ~26 days played time. That's about $.16 per hour played. Mathematically that seems like pretty extreme value for time spent.

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                      • That article was an excellent read. What I do find funny is that the CEO's etc of Bungie can the original game, disliking the story, and then what happens, everyone and their dog wants a story in game lol! Is a shame we will never know what Joe Stanton's story would have been like, but a decision was made and though it delivered something many would call crap, perhaps it was the best option in the end.

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                        • Basically the article is telling you, me, us... It's time to move on. Bungie can't even do what they want to do because of A) contracts B) bad engine C) too much time spent on code names. Why stick around when the quality baseline is acceptable, and that comes at the expense of great development effort. We know full potential will never be met.

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                          • I cant wait til i get a PS4 so i can sweep this garbage under the rug for games like Bloodborn, the witcher3, MKX and Final Fantasy 14 (A true MMO with a story).

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                          • the best bit? they took out the original END of the dreadnought and that's now becoming the ENTIRITY of detiny 2 , and its not even being created by them (sad that high moon will get flak for bungies sh!tty game). whst a suless bunch of scumbags bungie are, and i really do mena the actually useless part, they cant even programme their own 'sh!tty engine'. No ownder they coem up with all this philosophy bollocks, they KNOW theatthey are not good enough to prgramme what we are asking for. even the simple stuff. This should come to no supirse to anyone though. It does not take a genius so see how incompetant they are and how little they care about the quality of their work. Sad sad day for gaming and now iIthink I will get my money backfor this game, all of it. As I can now prove bunige sold me absolute crap and KNEW IT.

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                            • #bumpfortruth You nailed it buddy. The Bungie fanboys need to wise up. One day it will just be them, all alone in the tower, waiting for everyone else to come back [b]if[/b] Bungie continue the way they are going.

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                            • Hey Mal, you should edit your post to let people know that cozmo didn't actually say anything in this thread.

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                              • Edited by J Stevensontown: 10/21/2015 5:03:21 PM
                                So you want Bungie to let us ascend gear, communicate with us (instead of just making a post on how they're informing the higher ups, and give us the world we were all hoping for *-* a mmo rpg open world with no invisible walls, with depth and substance, with lore that is not hidden in riddles in grimoire cards, with maybe even some connection to your guardians?? Yeh, that's what the productive feedbackers (not Nerf crybabies) like you and I, and many others ask for constantly, to be ignored... But the counterproductive nerf cry babies get recognized constantly while we stay ignored. Scroll back in time and look @ EVERY post I have ever made (minus the ones raging on nerf cry babies) and see the thoughtful amazing feedback which has been ignored. BTW, an evolving world cost money...

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                                • Bump

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                                • A very well done article. I am surprised Kotaku of all things having an article such as this. You make very valid points which I agree with. The sad thing is that people who didn't buy TTK lost $60 plus however much the season pass/expansions were. Sure they can 'play' the game. Almost %80 of it though is cut off from them. I don't know about everyone else, but I would feel betrayed and robbed.

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