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Hello and welcome Guardians, this is your friendly neighborhood AnonPig and I’m finally back with a new theory. While I’ve been away, busy with a Warlock and Titan, I’ve been reading the grimoire and paying very close attention to the in-game lore that we now have access to. There are many little hints at future aspects of the game to come, but not much to make a full blown theory on. It wasn’t until I played through, for the third time, The Coming War. This was what really spawned this theory.
First and foremost let’s get three things right out in the open, and then I’ll go back to why these are the case. Eris is working with and for Mara Sov. Mara Sov is alive. We all owe Mara our lives yet again.
So as I said, Eris is working for Mara, this is first seen in Ghost Fragment Queen 2 [quote]"You don't have one."
The Hunter came to a halt in front of the throne, raised her covered face to meet the Prince's gaze.
"No," she agreed. "My next death will be my last."
"I know the feeling," the Prince said dryly.
The Queen kept her expression carefully distant. She sat reclined in her throne, legs crossed, surveying the two figures at the base of the steps. Beside her, where the Wolves' Guard used to stand, Techeuns Shuro and Sedia hovered instead, their jewel-like augments gently humming. To her right and just before stood the Prince, facing forward but his body half-turned back toward her.
"Your Grace," said the man before her at the foot of the stairs. His voice was soft but strong. When he spoke the Hunter started to turn her head toward him, then flinched as if someone had shone a bright light into her eyes.
"Thank you for your gracious welcome," he said.
The Queen inclined her head slightly.
"Before we begin," spoke out the Hunter. "I will say this." She paused, her head tilted up to the throne. The Queen waved her hand in assent.
The Hunter's pale lips tightened slightly, then resumed their usual stony mien. "Your Grace," she said. Shuro and Sedia shifted, a sudden rustling and whispering. The Queen raised one finger to silence them. Uldren's eyes narrowed, but he said nothing. "I am not here for you."
The Queen stared at the Hunter, her expression studiously unchanged.
"I have no wish to play politics. I have no grievance with the City, not anymore. I have no grand hopes to end the war, for long have I known I will not see its end. I am here for one battle, and one alone, because it is a battle we must all fight, together or separately. So I will warn the defenders, together or separately. I will do anything—" her low voice shook with passion— "to end Oryx."
A silence rang out in the room. The Hunter kept her head raised, her ambiguous gaze directed at the shadows in the throne where the Queen reclined.
Then a small smile curved the Queen's lips. "Well said." She straightened, and leaned slightly forward so the room's light fell on her face.
"So let us end him."[/quote]
We all know very well, simply by playing the game, that Eris has a personal grudge, and some could even say vendetta, against Oryx and his horde. This is seen by her relentlessly sending us after the Hive in the Dark Below, and now having an updated questline for those same missions. In this card we see a Guardian without a ghost, a Hunter, a woman with pale lips, and most distinctly, a covered face. This Hunter coming to see Mara is clearly Eris, offering her service to the Queen in exchange for the death of Oryx. But what could Mara Sov care about Oryx? She “wavers between the Light and the Dark” surely she’s not the prime target.
The second point i made was that Mara is still alive! This was something I’ve been screaming since the release of TTK and finally i think everyone else is seeing it too. Within the game there are quite a few references to her being alive, such as Zavala questioning the odd change of tactics for her. She would never risk everything, especially herself, to stop Oryx. But if it was a ploy, to go into hiding? That’s more in line with her cunning. Then there’s the Taken War: Petra questiline, these are the quotes from them. [quote]"If you're wondering why Petra wasn't on the Queen's flagship ... well. I always figured Her Majesty knew more than she was letting on." -Cayde[/quote] [quote]"Reef Patrol, this is search craft four. The Dreadnaught's orbit has cleared the debris field, and we've completed our initial survey. There's very little wreckage. The Hive have been busy out here. Sending scan data and requesting new orders." - Awoken Search and Rescue, Rings of Saturn[/quote] [quote]"Hey Anzani? I'm detecting a ... you know what, never mind. I swear that frame is losing it. What? Oh, it's nothing. It keeps reporting an intermittent signal on the flagship's signal band out near Saturn. It's a comms ghost, that's all. I've done a dozen scans. There's nothing out there." - Commtech Thedren Pell[/quote] [quote]"Petra, wanted to wait. To be sure. Taken are searching. Seeking out wreckage of Awoken Fleet. Wreckage of the Queen's flagship. They seek survivors. Oryx believes not all Awoken were slain that day. Some may yet live." - Variks, secure comm signal to Petra Venj[/quote] And quite possibly the only one you really need… [quote]"I leave this in our usual location. Knowing these files have not been touched since that day, I doubt this will be of assistance. But just in case ... Please, Mara, reach out. Contact Petra, contact me. If you can." - Audio file, Royal data vault, timestamp four days after the battle at Saturn[/quote]
Reading through those alone should prove to you that Mara lives, the last as I said was almost definitive proof of it. “four days after the battle at Saturn.” Mara lives.
And lastly Mara has saved our asses yet again, this is simply a little lore tidbit i thought you may enjoy. At this point it should be well known that the Battle of Twilight Gap was one of the largest the City has faced, the Devils Kings and Winter all attacked the City at once. Curiously, the Wolves did not make it, this was because of Mara. Risking her, and her people’s safety she waged war on the Wolves, initiating it by blowing up the asteroid several were docked on killing the Kell. But now, once again, she saves us. From the Rings of Saturn card [quote]Saturn's rings are not solid matter. Comprised of uncountable flecks of ice and dust, and shaped by the gravity of Saturn and its many moons, these particulates form two glowing rings around the gaseous planet below.
Or, they did. Then Oryx's Dreadnaught arrived. Its weapon punched right through the rings as it rushed toward the Awoken fleet that stood in its path.
The rings of Saturn spin on. Perhaps one day they will be whole again.[/quote]
If it wasn’t for her intervention Oryx would have come right to us.
But now that the introductions are done, let’s get into the real theory and point of this post. Mara, her involvement with Oryx, and Eris’ as well.
There’s difficulty in writing this post, let me just be blunt, it’s hard to decide where i should actually begin. I suppose the best way though is to just guide you to the answer and not just scream it at you. So… The Touch of Malice. Several Guardians were lucky enough to get the Agornarch rune finished before the glitch was discovered and now own this fantastic scout rifle, others had different ways of obtaining it but have it all the same, and sadly some are unable to get it because of exploiters. No matter you have it or not though there is one Calcified Fragment that i wish to bring to your attention.
[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/115658936]AnonPig's Theories Archived[/url]
[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/163539481]next[/url]
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So I have one question: Who is the guy with Eris? "The Queen kept her expression carefully distant. She sat reclined in her throne, legs crossed, surveying the two figures at the base of the steps. Beside her, where the Wolves' Guard used to stand, Techeuns Shuro and Sedia hovered instead, their jewel-like augments gently humming. To her right and just before stood the Prince, facing forward but his body half-turned back toward her. "Your Grace," said the man before her at the foot of the stairs. His voice was soft but strong. When he spoke the Hunter started to turn her head toward him, then flinched as if someone had shone a bright light into her eyes. "Thank you for your gracious welcome," he said." So you can tell there's a man with Eris because of the line he has in this grimoire, and because when it describes where everyone is in the room, it says Uldren is next to the Queen while two people stand at the foot of the stairs. Eris and the man. This man appears to be a Guardian or some other follower of the light because he's with Eris and because Eris flinched away as if a light was shone in her face (we all know Eris is no longer very comfortable around the Light) Also, during the Petra Vinjj Taken King quest, not only are there quotes that prove Mara still lives, but the whole beginning portion is you finding portions of the Queen's ship. Petra wonders why the Taken are also after these pieces and says a few lines that lead me to believe they were trying to track down the still living Queen Plus Mara is just too awesome to die so I easily accept all of this evidence that she's alive
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Bump for later
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Everything points to her being alive, she wouldnt gain anything from putting herself at the front of the battle, what to deploy the Harbingers? Doubt it. I also believe she is savathun, but from what ive seen in the book of sorrows, it never implies that savathun is stronger than xivu so neither eris nor the prince could be xivu, who the hell is xivu arath in all of this? And if Mara really is savathun who the hell is her brother in the Hive world? And what is it that Eris is going to do now?
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Pssst. You know the part about "two dead souls"? It's explained in Ghost Fragment: Awoken 3
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So far the only point I find inncorrect is your claiming that final quote is proof she is alive, I belive she is, but I read that quote to be someone placing an audio plea for help in the records in hopes that the queen will have access to it and give them a sign she is alive. Going to continue reading the theory, just wanted to input
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Bump for lore
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The hunter could be the stranger
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TL;DR
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Good read.
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Is it weird that I was listening to "Never Gonna Give You Up" while I read this?
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2spooky4me
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So will the video ever be up or should I just read
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One last thing— Ghost Fragment: Awoken 2. At the end, what seems to be an Awoken mother or perhaps the Queen refers to the Awoken as a beautiful creation that must be kept safe. Perhaps the Awoken in general are the creation that the Queen fought to keep safe
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My one question is who was the man next to Eris? Maybe Osiris?
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Great post per usual, hope you are right!!
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Fantastic job man! Very well put together. I think it's very likely that your theory is correct. Her motives are very well hidden and carefully orchestrated so it's hard to prove. But it's an excellent theory. It definitely makes sense to me. Keep up the great work, bro!
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Oh AnonPig, don't ever change...
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Awesome theory Anon, I just have 2 questions. 1. The grimoire card for the Queen has the quote "I am noble to oh lord of wolves, starlight is my mother, my father the dark." (Or something along those lines) Toax was not Savanthun's birth mother right? I feel like something's missing in there. 2. What does this mean about Uldren? Does this mean he is Xu Rath (yeah I don't remember the spelling) or is he her adopted brother?
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This is amazing. Once I saw that Eris was working with the queen in the cut scenes I immediately thought of the grimiore card with the hunter. The one thing I'm hung up on is that I thought Eris was one of ikora's warlocks. Can you explain why then she is referred to as a hunter in the card.
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Excellent use of sources and direct quotes from Grimoire. While heavy on the Rhetorical Questions, they work rather well in the context of the argument.
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OOOOOHHH YEEEEAAAAHHH!
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Bumpity bump bump bump