JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#feedback

Edited by Malphisto: 10/3/2015 2:41:52 AM
229

INNOVATION vs. OBSOLESCENCE... (The Big One)

Since the very beginning of Destiny, player feedback from both sides of the fence has always had the same intended goal behind it. To improve and expand the experience. To stretch the realm of possibility and test the limits of human creativity. [b]FOR THIS WAS THE HOPE WE ALL WANTED TO BELIEVE IN![/b] The endless potential of what we all saw back in 2013. However, Bungie... Such has not been the case, has it? This post has been in the making for several months now, and each time I keep going back and amending it. Contemplating it. Reflecting upon my own thoughts. And now here I present to you the fruit of my labor... Currently, as has been the continued trend for this game, Destiny has followed a mentality of obsolescence: rendering previous content or features obsolete in favor of new replacements. [b]-Weapons (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Weapons) -Armor (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Armor) -Raids (Vault of Glass / Crota's End, Replaced with King's Fall) -Events (Hive Sword Bearers / Wolf Packs, Replaced with The Taken) -PvE Arena (Prison of Elders, Replaced with Court of Oryx)[/b] It is [b]NOT A QUESTION[/b] of whether or not the Year 2 replacements are better by comparison, but rather the act of manually engineering the previous content to have its value removed in order to promote continued progression that is [b]FORCED[/b] upon the community instead of allowing it to be freely chosen. Much in the same way that the paywalls imposed upon non-TTK buyers is an attempt in itself to strong arm people into paying for something just so they can continue doing the things that were previously available to them. (Even back when the last two DLCs didn't do this) Planned Obsolescence does absolutely nothing for anyone. It doesn't promote time investment. It doesn't encourage people to spend money on the product. It doesn't advocate MORE CONTENT because its essentially keeping the same amount of content that was originally there to begin with. The Taken King is thought to be an improvement, and yet its only $20 less than [i]Vanilla Destiny[/i] which gave us... [b]-The Tower (Social Hub) -Old Russia, Earth (Open World Area) -Sea of Storms, Moon (Open World Area) -Ishtar Sink, Venus (Open World Area) -Meridian Bay, Mars (Open World Area) -22 Story Missions -6 Strikes -1 Raid (Vault of Glass) -11 Crucible Maps -6 PvP Game Modes (Skirmish, Clash, Rumble, Control, Combined Arms and Salvage)[/b] Ignoring the travesty that was Dark Below and the now pointless House of Wolves DLC, both of which total the cost of the new expansion? Let us now compare what The Taken King is offering... [b]-New Subclass -The Dreadnought (Open World Area, [i]Court of Oryx[/i] replaces Public Events for this location) -8 [i]"[u]STORY[/u]"[/i] Missions -4 Strikes -1 Raid (King's Fall) -8 Crucible Maps -2 PvP Game Modes (Rift and Mayhem)[/b] Now, I won't get into another discussion about my thoughts regarding TTK. That isn't the point of this post. Pricing and all the other stuff aside. [i]You would think this is an actual injection of more content for Destiny.[/i] However, the big problem here is that with TTK, you are also [b]LOSING CONTENT[/b] as well because it no longer has any value. So after getting all that out of the way... [b]INNOVATION IS THE ANSWER.[/b] Think about it. What REALLY made anyone even the slightest bit interested in TTK to begin with? Obviously wasn't the lackluster amount of content, to be sure. No, of course not. Its the innovations that are presented with it. [b]-Ghost Scanning -Triggered Events -Quest System -New Abilities (Subclasses) -New Weapon Type (Swords) -Better Level Design (Less Horde Modes, More Action)[/b] Innovation should always be your only concern and point of focus. Everything should have relevancy. If you want to create a game that can stand the test of time and grow into a beloved franchise like what you had with Halo, it is only possible if you continue to evolve. [b]GEAR MODIFICATION:[/b] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdAWcizd1WY Concerning the matter of Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Gear being left behind. This decision not only rendered a large chunk of content worthless, it also invalidated the amount of time players invested into getting them. Destiny centers largely around grinding activities over and over to acquire more powerful loot. As such, all loot should serve a purpose and maintain a sense of value. There are plenty of ways to go about doing this. One such method is to implement a Gear Modification as another option to simply dismantling. In doing so, weapons can be broken down into actual distinctive parts. (Barrel, Muzzle, Grip, Clip, Sight, etc.) From here, you can likewise work this concept into a couple methods. "[i][u]Weapon Customization[/u][/i]"- Combining these parts together to create unique weapons personalized in both appearance, attributes and perks to suit each player's style. "[i][u]Weapon Crafting[/u][/i]"- Combining various weapons together to create new ones that can ONLY BE ACQUIRED through crafting. [b]-Fatebringer (Year 1) + Word of Crota (Year 1) = Dawn Caller (Crafted ONLY Year 2 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Dawn Caller (Year 2) + Evangeline (Year 3 Hand Cannon) = Death Penalty (Crafted ONLY Year 3 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Fatebringer (Year 1) + Remorse (Year 3 Raid Hand Cannon) = THE DEVIL YOU WANT (Crafted ONLY Year 4 Legendary Hand Cannon)[/b] Notice the natural progression without sacrificing relevancy? This same system can also be used for Armor as well. [b]UNRESTRICTED INFUSION:[/b] https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/150515526/0/0 Myself and others have made this point plenty of times and will continue to do so until we actually see something done about it. I won't get into the full argument here and instead simply refer you to this link for more details. Basically, it boils down to the fact that many folks love their old weapons and armor for various reasons and Infusion is really just a wasted opportunity as is. [b]#INFUSIONFORALL[/b] [b]ELIMINATING LIGHT LEVEL:[/b] Its really just holding the game back at this point. It obviously didn't change, your character level is now just basically your "Equip Level" while Light itself still works the exact same way of determining your overall offense and defense during combat. The whole thing needs to be scraped and the Level System entirely re-evaluated. And it goes without saying that requiring players to purchase DLC in order to keep raising their level is going to drive more people away from the game, not actually encourage them to stick around. I figured that was just common sense, really. [b]NEW WEAPONS:[/b] The notion of rendering older weapons obsolete to "make room" for new ones is really just an old hat and flawed notion that some developers just can't seem to wrap their minds around. In an interview, DeeJ makes mention that there would be a "Year 2 equivalent for Fatebringer" which means you're knowingly getting rid of older weapons JUST to make new replacements. Again, this is a textbook case of planned obsolescence. Instead of making how many different versions to replace a single weapon, wouldn't it make more sense if you just KEEP that original weapon and instead focus on designing NEW TYPES of weapons? You've already done it twice now with Sidearms and Swords. Not only does this expand player variety but also opens up the door to endless possibilities. [b]-SMG -GNL (Grenade Launcher) -Laser Cannon (Similar to the Spartan Laser from Halo) -Energy Bow (Longbows that release Charged Arrows) -Tower Shield (Similar to the Cabal Shields) -MORE MELEE WEAPONS... (Axes, Claws, Whips, etc. Each of these weapons have their own characteristics and uses)[/b] Anyways, I could easily go on and on with all manner of ideas. You are only limited by your own imagination. New PvP Game Modes. CLAN ONLY ACTIVITIES AND CONTENT. Overhauling Year 1 Content. Adding NEW VERSIONS of previous Endgame Content with new rewards. SPACE/AERIAL COMBAT. Sparrow Racing. Player Trading. Player Housing. OPENING UP THE CITY FOR EXPLORATION. More Social Features. New Mechanics. (Zero Gravity Environments for "[i]Unreal Tournament[/i]" style fighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhTtPYo1tww ) [b]INNOVATION BEATS OBSOLESCENCE ALWAYS. PERIOD.[/b]

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Great post!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Love how no one mentions the quests... They make this DLC

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • bumpppp great post.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • As always. Bump.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Thank you for seeing the lack of innovation here nothing about the TTK was worth $40 at all. Destiny has so much potential but is hind sighted by their selfishness

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • Edited by DestinysInBeta: 9/28/2015 6:44:07 PM
        [quote]What's funny is that; "you don't want to play with the same weapons for ten years. That would be boring" But playing the same levels? That will never get boring, right? Let's keep making you pay to run the Cosmodrone forwards, backwards, sideways, upside down. You sheep like that don't you?[/quote] I would add this

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        4 Replies
        • Sure they will "innovate" after TTK post DLC by bringing back the old content available and try to sell them us again! As someone here posted... This is a stick and carrot thing...

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • So much win sauce... I posted something similar about weapon progression/customisations which is the thing that really irks me in moving from year 1 to 2...year 1 mass-dismantle was just lazy programming...

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            1 Reply
            • Great post and ideas Honestly at this point I think some key things must be done to allow destiny to be great and to continue into the future I'll just share a couple ideas that are redundant to the post but just what I find important 1. Make all weapons and armor relevant and carry into the future of the game with each new dlc release by either making an item attainable to make the old gear up to max lvl aka etheric light or allow the old weapons to be leveled up through gaining xp 2. Make all previous content aka missions and raids relevant by making all them have the ability to be ran at the higher new Max lvls 3. Also I think the old content should get the same treatment that is given to the new dlcs imagine how cool it would be to have a reason to replay through the old content and to get rewards worthwhile for instance maybe a new ghost shell for beating the black garden mission Or to go back and make the strangers rifle a legendary or exotic Maybe even toss some of the new weapon types in as rewards for redoing vog Crota or how raids missions such as vog swords and sidearms Crota swords and sidearms or how swords also imagine any of these having ghosts styled after each expansion a Crota ghost with the 3 eyes a vog ghost with vex skin or how styled after Skolas Also maybe they could stick in some new cutscenes for older content to elaborate on more of the original story 4. Also just stop removing the social and open world events like the wolves and swords heck if anything introduce more and make them Each unique I think it would be sweet to run into a special unit of cabal on the cosmodrone Or heck can we see some enemies where we ussualy don't see them?? Maybe the hive or fallen on Mars I could keep Going and going just really the op has it stop Making things redundant and obsolete This is really the reason why I don't want ttk or don't want to continue with destiny You've made all my work from vanilla through how irrelevant and obsolete At least with etheric light I could keep the armor and weapons I wanted for HOW and have a lot of fun with a lot of weapons but no that has been taken away and pun intended Why would that make me want to continue?? Especially considering this will happen again and repeat more than likely again a great post op Thanks for anyone who suffered through my novel the whole way through But until things change this guardian is taking a break maybe indefinitely for now take your ghost and pass on the revive to the next guardian who cares

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              6 Replies
              • Innovation.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                1 Reply
                • Well said.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  1 Reply
                  • I agree 420%! Very well written and I think if bungie even wants to see a year 3 they need to step back and value our interest in their product and stop seeing us for money bags. Quit dismissing your vet players for your financial gains bungie/craptovision.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    2 Replies
                    • Great post. Very well written.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • Bump

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • Edited by Lytri: 9/28/2015 10:48:55 PM
                      This post was well written and very interesting. I totally agree and think innovation is the key! I was waiting to give this a proper response, but you've covered so much, I don't think there is much left to say except that I agree with everything really! I think Destiny puts up artificial barriers to halt progress in a bid to extend the life of the game to try and make it feel bigger as the content just isn't there. TTK may be living up to hype now (for some), but in a month? I'm not so sure. Gear is a big focus in the game, but if they keep making what people have collected obsolete, people will lose interest and not see the reward anymore. The fact is, in the long run if they created more brand new content to actually expand the game, people would stay, rather than constantly reinventing the wheel. Innovation definitely beats obsolescence, but I'm not sure whether Bungie could provide it. To me both Bungie and Activision's most successful games (ie. Halo, COD) with each iteration tend to rely on repeated game mechanics in a slightly shinier shell. I think Destiny would have benefitted from a studio with more imagination and something to prove. You only have to look at something like No Man's Sky, to see the scope and imagination some of the smaller studios can be capable of (I mean who knows how good it will really be but you get the idea). Either way, Destiny seems to be cannibalising itself with each new DLC release and method of progression, and I think that certainly needs to change for the sake of those still playing!

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      6 Replies
                      • Bump . Bungies silence in this thread is indicative of their attitudes towards players and fans. They don't give a FUKCK

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • Edited by Speppo82: 9/28/2015 9:50:04 PM
                        [url]http://mashable.com/2015/06/09/call-of-duty-black-ops-iii-last-gen/#zGCNiVYj2OqE[/url] And if we want to talk about Activision and their new game COD, read this article...

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • Bump again before they remove this post like the controlling [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] they are. You can talk about any game. They don't mind. As long as its not Destiny. :)

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        1 Reply
                        • Edited by garionlrpg: 9/28/2015 5:06:04 AM
                          Thank-you for the good read. Planned obsolescence is exactly right concerning the destiny progression. It's not really surprising to me that they have this development model, though, considering it's been the American practice since long before I was born. And that's exactly why I don't think bungie or Activision will change. Sure innovation is better. I'm sure everyone at either company would agree. But it doesn't make as much money. Bungie is long from being an indy developer, and their business decisions with Activision reflect that. I see hints sometimes of bungie creating as they used to. But mostly, I see incomplete thoughts implemented as a supposedly fully realized game. Perhaps it's them, as a whole, having severely limited experience in the rpg and mmo genres (though I can't imagine that to be completely true). Or, perhaps, they are simply trying to please too many different types of people. Or maybe they are only trying to please big brother Activision. Whatever the case, I find it saddening to see really great game changing ideas from bright individuals who want nothing but a better experience for the community he/she is in. I've never once felt bungie really heard, or cared, what its fan base feels and thinks about the game. They will do whatever they want. They will make the game that fits them and fits their needs. And until they change that philosophy, all points and suggestions become moot. At least we got more vault space... Thanks again. Burmp. #you inspiredmetowritetoomuch

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          1 Reply
                          • Amazing

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          • Those suggestions would require Bungie to actually work and not just recycle old content.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            1 Reply
                            • Bump

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            • While I am enjoying TTK so far, I doubt I'll get more than two months out of it. If Destiny wants to stay relevant and entertaining, it should release two TTK sized expansions at a cost of $20. The next Destiny's "Comet" should be at least two thirds the size of the base-game.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              1 Reply
                              • Yay 2/9/2016 BATTLEBORN. https://www.facebook.com/BattlebornTheGame/videos/1628642437390929/ Consider that the life expectancy of this Game.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                1 Reply
                                • Bump!

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                • Forced obsolescence. If you aren't good enough to innovate, you force your older products into obsolescence and attempt to make people change to the new. Short term, that works on a popular product. Long term, people get sick of it and move on.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                4 5 6 7 8 9 10
                                You are not allowed to view this content.
                                ;
                                preload icon
                                preload icon
                                preload icon