[quote]star wars lore: WE ACTUALLY USE SCIENCE[/quote] What are you smoking? Star wars is no more based in science than Halo is.

Really? Name ANYTHING from star wars; ill find the science behind it for you. Halo: unexplained and flat out wrong science in that series: 1 halo array range is 1 galaxy: if there are 17 halo arrays with 25,000 lightyear blast diameter thats 2,000,000x the diameter of the milky way---> the andromeda galaxy is in that radius There IS NO statement on what the Halo blast wave energy is or how fast it moves. All energy can be diverted, blocked, dissipated, or turned into matter so HALO blast waves WOULD NOT even work as directed in the series; not to mention once that energy came in contact with its target it would be spent which means any life form behind enough other life forms would also survive the blast wave, its just a question of how many life forms one of the energy particles can destroy. Stuff like that. Dont even get me started on fore runners and precursors.

Where does star wars explain lightsabers or the death star or energy shields or ftl travel or literally anything. Remember, whatever you find has to come directly from star wars and be canon. And here's why you are wrong anyways: George Lucas just made up all the base technology of star wars.

He also worked with publishing houses making encyclopedias to explain the junk; Most of the star wars wikia and wikipedias are sighted from the (STILL CANNON cuz their content is just from the movies); The del rey + lucas books published encyclopedias such as; "Star Wars: new essential guide to weapons and technology" by W. Haden Blackman with illustrations by Ian Fullwood published by Del Rey in conjunction with Lucas Books. If the book has the; starwars.com logo on it and is of the movies or clone wars tv show or rebels tv show or force awakens or rogue one---> it is still cannon.

Just because they explained them afterwards doesn't mean they were based in real science.

Halo Rings can fire into other galaxies if you just change the firing setting on them.

No sry our nearest neighboring galaxy is 2.2 million light years away. Theres no way any energy wave of any kind could cross that large an expanse WITH OUT dissipating.

The halo rings explicitly ignore space and time. At the end of Halo silentium, omega halo was used against the flood, and the wave instantly wiped out a nearby galaxy. They ignore space and time so hard, the forerunners were getting reports of a successful firing of the array, before they actually fired the array. Of course you're also assuming that for this debate the Star Wars galaxy and the halo galaxy are millions of light-years apart. If that's the case, the only side that can go on the offensive is halo, because the precursors, forerunners, and flood are the only race that can travel intergalactically at a reliable speed.

No energy wave can ignore the space time barrier and still effect anything within the confines of space time: IE if you ignore the space time barrier, you cant effect anything within the confines of our universes space time at the same time

Okay. So Star Wars can't jump to light speed because opening a wormhole is impossible as it requires the existence of negative mass, which is nonsense. Jedi can't use light sabers or the force, the former because the heat from the plasma blade would melt the users hand, and the latter because it actively ignores the laws of physics. The star forge and sun crusher is out because the Forge would superheat and melt from such close proximity to the star, and the sun crusher is out because the energy necessary to destroy a star is far, far too large for its small missiles to achieve--the Bekenstein Bound says hi. The Death Star is out because unless it is made out of neutron star material, no material can maintain structural integrity of an object that size with a small star burning at the heart of it (the necessary energy reserves to destroy a planet). If it IS made out of neutron star material, no one could stand on it without being pulverized. Anymore questions? Halo works for two reasons. The first is that the halo energy propagates on cross phased supermassive neutrinos. Neutrinos are only effected by the weak nuclear force and gravity, both of which are too weak to meaningfully impact it, meaning the energy passes through almost anything undeterred; all it needs to do is shut down the nervous system of complex organisms, which it can do on the molecular scale. Combine that with Forerunner's temporal manipulation tech, and the Rings hit their target the instant they are fired, regardless of space, mass or time. The other reason they work is because it's called science [i]fiction[/i]. Deal with it.

Ok lightsabers: Plasma blade contained by a magnetic field. All you need is metal that can withstand the heat of the plasma; most plasmas burn at 40,000 degrees F, we have metal alloys NOW that have melt points upwards of 400,000 degrees F, the non melting of the hand is due to DIRECTED heat flow thanx to the magnetic containment field and the fact that plasma flows along magnetic lines of force PLUS entropy causes heat to DISSIPATE rapidly. We have PLASMA TORCHES right now, the heat is directed outward and you could in theory hold it 2-4 inches BELOW where the plasma comes out and NOT melt your hand (you would get a 1st degree burn if not wearing a leather glove tho) The hyperspace: HYPERSPACE is NOT a WORMHOLE or Einstein-Rosenberg bridge; it is moving faster than light within a hyperspace field (the hyperspace engine or jumpgate creates a hyperspace field and launches it to your destination with you inside of it.) The moon is 2x the size of the death star and made of loose rocks, and it does not crunch in on itself; the deathstar is composed of super alloy metals (i can look up and source if you like) the death stars power generator IS NOT a star; It is a contained supersized artificial fusion reactor of EQUAL POWER OUTPUT to a small star but it IS NOT a star (its called cold fusion; its actually quite hot but it is FAR COLDER than natural fusion which occurs in stars) The jedi and the force thats a theory on being able to channel the energies of the universe around you (matter can be converted into energy and vice versa plus electricity is simply the flow of electrons; all atoms of all elements have electrons, so its NOT that far fetched) Yea neutrinos can pass through 100 light years of steel or 1 light year of lead (like solid blocks that big) with out interacting with matter. NEUTRINOS move at sub light speed. You cant ignore time and still be able to interact with matter or energy in this universe as this universe is bound by 4 dimensions; time being one of those. So unless each particle could willfully control where and when it needed to go and go no where or no other time PER particle; you cant just send out a wave of energy have it ignore time and still have it interact with this universe. THE ONLY TIME this law of quantum physics IS EVER IGNORED is with electron quantum elevators/leaps. Also neutrinos when they DO interact with matter; all they do is release a burst of photons AND THATS IT. Your post was a mile long, did i miss anything?

[quote] Your post was a mile long, did i miss anything? [/quote] Yes. The point. I already knew all of the technobabble explanations for everything you just told me. The point is, it's technobabble. "You just need to find a metal alloy strong enough." Yeah, a metal alloy strong enough to hold up to a beam of plasma explicitly designed to cut through anything instantly (that is only ever resisted by fictional materials like cortosis). You'd also have to find a way to keep the metal itself from conducting any heat whatsoever. But again, this is a fictional metal, by your own admission, that emits a beam using explicitly fictional means (a magic crystal), wielded by space wizards that have fictional powers. Are you seriously trying to scientifically explain Buddhism? The fact that it is not "technically" a star is utter semantics. The point is, it provides the power output of a small star and all that entails. No material on earth can hold up that kind of energy. And the moon might be composed of loose rock, but it isn't a hollow structure held up by giant I-Beams. Again, fictional technobabble. And you have no explanation for the sun crusher. All of it is technobabble. In theory all of these things could work, but thus far, they do not, due to the laws of nature being more rigorous than those of fiction. I don't care what explanation you give me for the Death Star, or the Force, it is no more valid than the Halo Rings. If you want to tell me that the Force( an explicitly mystical energy field with explicitly mystical properties such as an afterlife and whatever the hell happened at the end of The Clone Wars Season 6) is somehow scientifically valid, than I have every right to claim that Halo, and the Precursors--which operate on very similar principles to the Force--are also valid. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Star Wars is science fantasy. Halo is science fiction with a touch of fantasy. Both have self-imposed limitations on themselves. Argue the canon and the lore, or don't argue at all.

Really techno babble? The renowned physicist Michio Kaku (big PhD guy at NASA) says a beam of plasma contained by a magnetic field DOES work and behave as a lightsaber if the magnetic field is strong enough to sustain shape and containment; We cant do it cuz we DONT have an energy source powerful enough AND small enough to do it. (Those magic crystals; are actuated by the power-supply but are themselves a capacitor/amplifier for that power supply) Plasma burns at X temp (40,000-100,000 degrees F - any plasma that burns hotter IS SUPER HEATED PLASMA and is a DIFFERENT MATERIAL) Industrial steel in MODERN 2000s buildings can with stand 400,000 degrees F! Thats not techno babble its ACTUAL PHYSICS also lightsabers DONT cut through anything instantly Plasma due to high electric charge (which is how it is heated) IS HIGHLY MAGNETIC and flows along magnetic lines of Force per Flemings Left Hand Rule of electricity And magnetism

[quote] Really techno babble? The renowned physicist Michio Kaku (big PhD guy at NASA) says a beam of plasma contained by a magnetic field DOES work and behave as a lightsaber if the magnetic field is strong enough to sustain shape and containment; [/quote] No one here is doubting the theoretical science behind the lightsaber (RE: "In theory all of these things could work"), or Michio Kaku, but rather whether or they are [i]actually[/i] possible. Is it possible to contain a plasma beam in a focused magnetic tube about 4 feet long hot enough to cut through almost anything, in a tiny handle, yet not also instantly melt off the user's hand? I don't presume to know, yet you seem to be saying it very much is actually possible. [quote] (Those magic crystals; are actuated by the power-supply but are themselves a capacitor/amplifier for that power supply) [/quote] Exactly, which is bullshit. It's all magic. [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic]Sufficiently analyzed magic[/url], but still magic. I defer again to Forerunner temporal manipulation technology. How is that, which operates using increasingly tiny pcoket universes of compressed dimensions and fractal dimensions, unacceptable, but a magic Force imbued crystal that somehow acts as an amplifier for a plasma beam acceptable? [quote] Industrial steel in MODERN 2000s buildings can with stand 400,000 degrees F! [/quote] Congrats. Come back when you have a material that can hold up to 1.2billion Kelvin. [quote]also lightsabers DONT cut through anything instantly [/quote] I said that pretty clearly there are materials that can resist them, just not real ones. [quote]Plasma due to high electric charge (which is how it is heated) IS HIGHLY MAGNETIC and flows along magnetic lines of Force per Flemings Left Hand Rule of electricity And magnetism [/quote] Firstly, the lightsaber is the least of my issues right now because it is arguably the most explainable technology we are discussing (despite operating explicitly on magic, but I know you'll just ignore whatever is convenient for you to ignore). No one is questioning the theoretical physics involved. What I AM questioning is the blatant magic that goes into the tech. The Death Star uses a hypermatter reactor to power its weaponry and the rest of itself. Hypermatter is an exotic tachyonic material that exists only in hyperspace. So it is a magical material that comes from a place that doesn't exist, powering a weapon that, in real life AND in canon, would not be possible without it. Same goes for the lightsaber. It is a plasma beam focused down a magnetic tube that is only possible because of a magical Force imbued crystal that amplifies its power. Halo fires a wave propagated on cross-phased supermassive neutrinos and, likely using their vacuum energy or temporal manipulation technology, hits its target instantly. No one knows the exact science behind it anymore than any one knows the exact science behind the Force, because both the Force and Halo operate on a similar principle (that the universe is a living, breathing entity) and can so kindly give physics the finger. The difference is, I'm not pretending Halo is hard science fiction. Between the two of us, YOU are the only one trying to rationalize the Force as hard sci-fi. Are you seriously that daft? As we have gone on, your list of excuses for the various pieces of Star Wars lore I have brought up has continuously shrunk, and now all you can talk about is the lightsaber (which STILL uses a magic space crystal). Face it, Star Wars is no more scientific than Halo, and even less so because at least Halo has the sense to give an explanation, incorporating multi-verse theory, extra-dimensional space, vacuum energy and such. Controversial maybe, but at least they're real scientific models, unlike Star Wars, which boils down to "it just works." I love Star Wars, but quit pretending it's something that it isn't. It's all speculative fiction and fantasy, just argue the canon and we can move on. Do you get this bent out of shape when you play Skyrim and you blow a man off a cliff by shouting at him? Are you going to try and explain the physics behind Light in Destiny? How is that doctoral thesis on Eru from Lord of the Rings coming? When the God Emperor of Mankind killed his son Horus, which of the 4 fundamental forces did he use when he blasted Horus with an attack as powerful as a supernova and tore out his soul? How did the ship they were standing on not vaporize? What material was it made out of? That's what your argument boils down too: pretending that all of fiction must adhere to rigorously held rules of real life physics will ruin fiction for you unless it is written by Larry Niven. Just enjoy the work of fiction and get back to the actual debate, rather than this waffling about how the Force "is NOT that far fetched."